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Unrest after capturing a planet - Printable Version

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RE: Unrest after capturing a planet - Diebo - 04-09-2013 06:04 AM

(04-09-2013 05:59 AM)rocco Wrote:  If you don't want to invade the planet do to costs, then you can always plan to get orbital bombardments to blow it up instead. What's that, a reason to get orbital bombardments! Wink

And that is the direction I would probably head late game! Smile


RE: Unrest after capturing a planet - General_Grr - 04-09-2013 08:36 AM

(04-09-2013 05:59 AM)rocco Wrote:  We could also introduce racials and/or tech that affect this. Maybe battlehardened races are more effective at reducing unrest, shorting the duration. etc.

I like that. Battlehardened is a racial I seldom pick. Also long term I guess some techs could reduce unrest time etc..

Very cool!


RE: Unrest after capturing a planet - VanderLegion - 04-09-2013 10:29 AM

(04-09-2013 05:59 AM)rocco Wrote:  
(04-09-2013 05:11 AM)Diebo Wrote:  10 command points is huge, 10 percent morale penalty is small. I can see not being able to use the bonus CP of the planet, or even the starbase in the system (max 4 CP) until unrest is over. But if you take over 2 late-game planets, and can't eradicate the population easily (no pop movement)...a 30 point (from 60 pop) CP cost could be crippling.

CP represents how much control over military operations you empire can take before it needs to start spending extra cash to compensate. As such, it does indeed make sense that the military takeover of an entire planet incur a cost in CP, as your military is busy handling the take over. I understand that it could be crippling, and maybe the values presented are too high, but I do like that it costs something.

If you don't want to invade the planet do to costs, then you can always plan to get orbital bombardments to blow it up instead. What's that, a reason to get orbital bombardments! Wink

We could also introduce racials and/or tech that affect this. Maybe battlehardened races are more effective at reducing unrest, shorting the duration. etc.

(04-09-2013 05:11 AM)Diebo Wrote:  I would recommend focusing on morale penalties (and maybe more limited CP penalties). Maybe in your example, a 40 percent morale (4x, not 1x) penalty on turn 10, using your rules for assimilation? And were you thinking 10 turns = -10% morale, 9 turns -9%?

Yes, I envision both the morale and the CP penalty being tied to "turns left until unrest is over". So it could be -10 CP with 10 turns left, -9 CP with 9 turns left.

Maybe instead of incurring a CP penalty, it could be set up so that X command points worth of ships are unable to move away from the planet until the unrest is over. So when you capture a system with 20 population, you have to keep 10 CP worth of ships in the system that turn, next turn maybe it decays to 9 so you could move a frigate away if you wanted, or the next turn a destroyer instead, etc. Having a CP penalty is basically saying you have to have ships there to control the population, but if you have a large fleet and all of a sudden take a 20 or 30 point CP penalty, that could be a HUGE cost per turn, whereas simply preventing you from moving some of the ships away would have a similar effect without the high possible costs.

You could also make it so you CAN move ships away, but you need X command points to keep the population in line, and if you have less than that in the system, maybe it has a chance to revolt and go back to it's original owner (so 20 population needs 10 CP for example, if you move your entire fleet away immediately, it has a 100% chance of revolting since you have no ships there. Move all but 5 CP away they have a 50% chance of revolting, etc). Could do a direct linear chance as in that example, so just whatever % of ships are missing from the required CP, or modify it as desired, so maybe 0 ships is only a 50% chance for instance, so maybe in an emergency you could move your entire fleet away to assist elsewhere, but you risk losing your new planet to do so.

In a situation like that, I'd not have a problem with a higher "CP Penalty" as I would if it just added a bunch of CP to your effective fleet size...


RE: Unrest after capturing a planet - vigie - 04-10-2013 05:55 PM

like VanderLegion’s idea.

Personally I like it to work out this way:

Once A takes over B's planet P with 20 pop ,all the residents will revolt. which will last 5~10(proportionate to pop) turns.

the first turn, morale penalty is 100% and you need 20 or more ships(for simplicity, could have been 20CP worth of ships) to suppress the rebellion.

the next turn, since you suppressed some rebels, morale penalty is 90%,and you need 18 or more ships.

and so on...until the rebellion dies down, no pop movement from that planet and A pay for maintenance...

if during that,when 40% obedient +60% rebel, the planet is retaken by B, your converted pop become rebels.

if a third party other than A or B's allies takes that planet, it faces 100% rebellion; your ally can inherit your assimilation


in short: It's like you brush the pop with your alliance's color. when you have superior force , you can brush, once brushed, they become obedient citizen.


RE: Unrest after capturing a planet - Mezmorki - 04-11-2013 01:02 AM

Rocco - I think this is a brilliant and simple addition that will do a lot to deepen the experience.

It creates some more interesting tradeoffs in attacking - e.g. can you afford the CP costs (and potential credit impact) of absorbing a ton of high population planets. If not, maybe your strategize around grabing a bunch of smaller planets first so the unrest period is briefer.

By next version, do you mean 1.2.1 or beyond that?


RE: Unrest after capturing a planet - Diebo - 04-11-2013 01:38 AM

@VL - I like the idea of tying up ships, but what if there aren't enough there in the first place?

How about something like this? Tie it to marines, not ships.

So if you take over a planet with 30 pop, it would take 30 turns to assimilate/control the population (with marine barracks 1, half that time with 2). If you are diplomatic, cut that time by 10(?) percent. If you are charismatic, cut it by 10(?) percent. Opposite for blundering diplomat/repulsive.

To reflect the need to control vehicle space against the insurgency, perhaps the planet would be in a "blockaded" condition unless there are at least 4 ships in orbit. Or tie the number of ship to planet size, to reflect the additional physical space involved. 1 ship for tiny, 2 for small, 3 for medium, 4 for large, 5 for huge. Either way. The advantage here is it already exists as a currently implemented system, but it does allow someone to take their fleet elsewhere - but at a penalty (blockaded system).

Ok, and for penalties associated with taking over a planet, as we have discussed tie them to morale. 100 percent penalty to start, and each turn it reflects the proportion of the starting population and the number of marines. So 30 initial pop / 15 marines = 50 percent penalty. Tie to to initial pop, because you could conceivably ship people in, and that might be hard to track. Ideally, everything would be tied to the individual person, but that isn't how the game was originally coded.

This would encourage use of marines 1+2, blockade unless sufficient forces were there, encourage use of orbital bombardment, and achieve I believe most of the goals of the OP. And hopefully be able to code without any major overhaul (as blockading, marines, morale all exist).


RE: Unrest after capturing a planet - VanderLegion - 04-11-2013 02:09 AM

(04-11-2013 01:38 AM)Diebo Wrote:  @VL - I like the idea of tying up ships, but what if there aren't enough there in the first place?

Depends on which of the two implementations I talked about were used. If it's the firsts (X CP just can't move), then whatever ships you DO have there are simply stuck until unrest settles enough. That'd be it. If you went with the ability to move, but X CP required to control th eunrest/prevent revolt, then you can capture it just fine with a smaller fleet, but you do so with the knowledge that it might revolt and end up bak as your opponent's again.


RE: Unrest after capturing a planet - rocco - 04-11-2013 03:46 AM

(04-11-2013 01:02 AM)Mezmorki Wrote:  By next version, do you mean 1.2.1 or beyond that?

I will likely implement something for this current beta test.


RE: Unrest after capturing a planet - rocco - 04-11-2013 03:56 AM

Thanks for all of the ideas. I still favor the concept of unrest planets costing actual CP. It is simple to understand, without extra rules. It works will all of the game mechanics currently in place, it is the simplest to implement, and there are already several methods to handle CP costs, all of which can be handled strategically to balance the cost of invasion.

- Build more starbases in preparation for attack, giving you extra CP to work with.

- Build more upgraded starbases.

- Use a battlehardened race; this racial has always given you more CP to work with.

- After you take over a planet, put the population on trade goods to compensate. Put more of your other planets on trade goods for a brief period.

- Get orbital bombardments. You cqn choose to obliterate the planet and re-colonize, or you can bombard just the population to bring it down to reasonable levels.

- Get money racials, since CP just equates to more money.

- Quick build a starbase on the new planet. Dump a couple ships worth of production onto it, freeing up CP. Wait several turns as the unrest subsides, then build the ships back.



And all of that is just what you can already do to combat CP overage. We can also add:

- Bonuses to other racials to see things along. Maybe Charismatic reduces time, and Repulsive adds time? Haven't looked closely yet.

- Bonuses to current tech. Maybe a sports facility will decrease time as it makes people happy? Maybe Diebo's idea of your marines stationed on the planet reduces the time.


RE: Unrest after capturing a planet - General_Grr - 04-11-2013 04:35 AM

Yes please keep it simple for casual players like meSmile. Already so many game mechanics in place that I have to consult the wiki now and then!

Either way you decide to implement it the changes will be profound.

I guess you will have fun in the beta group experimenting with racials, techs, orbital bombardments leader traits, etc to lower the actual unrest of your freshly captured planets!

Sounds great! Looking forward to the sharp releaseSmile