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v1.2.1 Overwhelming Force: destruction instead of retreat
07-22-2013, 05:33 AM
Post: #11
RE: v1.2.1 Overwhelming Force: destruction instead of retreat
(06-10-2013 11:35 PM)rocco Wrote:  
Quote:Frankly - how about overhwleming force just results in the smaller force being automatically eliminated with no battle. That would be infinetly better, more realistic, and avoid all the silly issues we now face.

Discuss!

As far as code goes, this change is feasible in the time left for this beta.

I think this should be skipped for times when you have a leader entering battle.

There should be some outcome other than losing your leaders without a fight.

- They should be transported back to the pool (you don't lose their services, but you have to reassign them).
- Optionally - there should be some risk the leader is taken hostage or delayed back to the pool. Perhaps the other side could bribe them to leave your service or bribe them to join a superior force).

If you want to risk them from death, at least let the person that hired them extract some damage from the "overwhelming" force. In my case, I had captain jack with a fast ship and colonel hannifer with a deadly in close ship (and also combat engines + aux thrusters IIRC) that should have done some heavy toll on the "overwhelming force" they faced unexpectedly.

In my case, they were going into a star base - few frigate situation, but the AI had a fleet I couldn't see going to the same system and they arrived at the same time as my forces.
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07-22-2013, 05:53 AM
Post: #12
RE: v1.2.1 Overwhelming Force: destruction instead of retreat
(07-22-2013 05:33 AM)bmike Wrote:  
(06-10-2013 11:35 PM)rocco Wrote:  
Quote:Frankly - how about overhwleming force just results in the smaller force being automatically eliminated with no battle. That would be infinetly better, more realistic, and avoid all the silly issues we now face.

Discuss!

As far as code goes, this change is feasible in the time left for this beta.

I think this should be skipped for times when you have a leader entering battle.

There should be some outcome other than losing your leaders without a fight.

- They should be transported back to the pool (you don't lose their services, but you have to reassign them).
- Optionally - there should be some risk the leader is taken hostage or delayed back to the pool. Perhaps the other side could bribe them to leave your service or bribe them to join a superior force).

If you want to risk them from death, at least let the person that hired them extract some damage from the "overwhelming" force. In my case, I had captain jack with a fast ship and colonel hannifer with a deadly in close ship (and also combat engines + aux thrusters IIRC) that should have done some heavy toll on the "overwhelming force" they faced unexpectedly.

In my case, they were going into a star base - few frigate situation, but the AI had a fleet I couldn't see going to the same system and they arrived at the same time as my forces.

I didn't think about leaders. An easy solution would be to add the leader bid price into the fleet price.
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07-22-2013, 12:58 PM
Post: #13
RE: v1.2.1 Overwhelming Force: destruction instead of retreat
(07-22-2013 05:53 AM)Diebo Wrote:  I didn't think about leaders. An easy solution would be to add the leader bid price into the fleet price.

The price of the leader might be better than nothing, but some leaders are well worth 10x what you get them for if your opponents are stuck for cash or worse - can't accommodate another battle leader due to needing support of civil leaders.

The right two leaders with fast ships could chew through 50 frigates with laser I to pieces as long as you don't mess up the targeting orders. I've mentioned this to Rocco already while testing beta versions - but it was less than a week ago when I had this situation so it will have to wait for a bug fix or even some thought how to handle it before code arrives to adjust the current battle situation when leaders enter into an otherwise lopsided battle.
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07-23-2013, 12:31 AM
Post: #14
RE: v1.2.1 Overwhelming Force: destruction instead of retreat
FYI, I did issue a server change in this scenario before we went live; leaders will be destroyed if they are part of an overwhelming fleet. I did this because (1) I couldn't leave a known crash causing bug in and (2) it is consistent with how leaders work currently (the ship gets destroyed, the leader goes away).

Someone made the same argument when overwhelming force was first brainstormed, although it did not include leaders (the concept that a single fast frigate with plasma can still any number of slow gauss turret ships, for example). It was decided that frigate lockdown was a big enough to justify losing these off battles. Until we decide to implement an "escape pod" tech, I believe the same applies in this case. Be careful where you send your leaders!
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07-23-2013, 01:58 AM
Post: #15
RE: v1.2.1 Overwhelming Force: destruction instead of retreat
(07-23-2013 12:31 AM)rocco Wrote:  Until we decide to implement an "escape pod" tech, I believe the same applies in this case. Be careful where you send your leaders!

I suggested this a while back and love the idea of escape pods for leaders!

GC ID: *-=KC Black Hawke=-* GMT+0
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07-23-2013, 06:32 AM
Post: #16
RE: v1.2.1 Overwhelming Force: destruction instead of retreat
I had "Rogue Captain" waiting for a small fleet, and was denied the salvage credits because my "overwhelming force" destroyed it. Suggest the credits should still be available, even if the fleet is destroyed without combat.

Maybe half of the fleet (+1 ship) is destroyed, while the rest retreats? That way, a fleet of 3 would still have 1 survivor. (The code would still need to make sure that blockade does not happen for an auto-retreat.)
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09-21-2013, 02:44 AM
Post: #17
RE: v1.2.1 Overwhelming Force: destruction instead of retreat
I just came across an odd situation that maybe requires a tweak to the "overwhelming force" rules.

My ally and my enemy engaged in a fight in a nearby system. I watched the fight play out and saw that while my ally was down to a single ship, my opponent had only missile ships and had spent them all and was slowly getting picked off. I sent my nearby frigate to the system to help pick off the now unarmed enemy ships. When my single ship arrived, it was auto-killed due to "overwhelming force" (I assume due to the number of enemy ships) even though at this point they had zero firepower to make use of.

Admittedly this is a rare situation, but it doesn't seem like I should have been killed out of hand here.
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