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Brilliant Researchers
08-16-2013, 06:56 AM
Post: #11
RE: Brilliant Researchers
I'd like to propose an alternate Brilliant Researcher bonus research selection method....
The relative probability for a given technology would be weighted by the ratio of the cost of the technology just researched over the cost of the possible new technology. This will keep the uncertainty high while controlling the benefit to be (on the average) reasonable.
Thus, if a 500 rp tech was researched, the relative chances of a 300 rp tech would be 1.67, and a 1000 rp tech would be 0.5, which seems reasonable with the cheap one 3.3 times more likely than the expensive one. This option seems more fun than just a hard limit.
If one wanted to skew things more towards e cheap side, use the square of the ratio, so 500/300 -> 2.78, and 500/1000 -> 0.25, a factor of 11 in probability.
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08-16-2013, 07:04 AM
Post: #12
RE: Brilliant Researchers
(08-16-2013 06:56 AM)PlanetaryScientist Wrote:  If one wanted to skew things more towards e cheap side, use the square of the ratio, so 500/300 -> 2.78, and 500/1000 -> 0.25, a factor of 11 in probability.

I kinda like that. I'd definitely recommend skewing to the cheap side.
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08-16-2013, 07:14 AM (This post was last modified: 08-16-2013 07:22 AM by PlanetaryScientist.)
Post: #13
RE: Brilliant Researchers
Which brings to mind a possible tweak to First Cerebrum (FC). If we chose the "ratio of the squares" for Brilliant Researches (BR), FC would be the linear ratio. And then if a BR empire got FC as a leader, they would get the benefit of somewhat better chances for more-expensive breakthroughs...

... Remembering that First Cerebrum only conveys a 20% chance of an extra tech.....
I'd also like to see the chance of a given technology enhanced if it is related to a technology the empire already has or just researched.
It makes sense that a jump from Shields 1 to Shields 2 would be more likely than Fast Missile Loaders, especially if no missile techs have been researched...
In fact, I would like a bigger multiplier for the tech just researched that otherwise owned techs. The inverse square of the cost ratio would still apply.
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08-16-2013, 08:47 AM
Post: #14
RE: Brilliant Researchers
I like the idea of having a chance to gain two levels, the shields example. This makes total sense. I also like the relative probability option, more uncertainty is good. I do not like it being impossible to get something more than was spent for, doesn't make sense to me. Breakthroughs are always possible.

Depending on the result of this, one may have to adjust the point value as well.

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08-16-2013, 12:31 PM
Post: #15
RE: Brilliant Researchers
And after further thought, the question comes up... What if (with BR) a very cheap tech is being researched, like Marine Barracks, with no other tech anywhere near as cheap? Maybe sometimes, nothing comes of it....?
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08-16-2013, 12:42 PM
Post: #16
RE: Brilliant Researchers
I like idea PlanetaryScientist's idea. I played a few turns with the current beta system, and the "less than or equal to" rule takes a lot of fun out of the trait.
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08-16-2013, 01:07 PM
Post: #17
RE: Brilliant Researchers
..and here is an idea for the "researching the cheapest tech" problem...
There is a chance of no bonus tech determined by the ratio of the difference in price between the cheapest (and being researched) tech and the next-cheapest tech, over the price of the next cheapest tech.
So if the cheap tech costs 200, and the next-cheapest 300, there would be a 300-200/300, or a 1/3 chance of no bonus. For a 400 rp with the next 450, it would be 450-400/450, or just 1/9.

This allows a fair way of dealing with when the most-desired technology happens to be the cheapest.
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Another idea is to boost the chances of "red" technologies in the queue, and reduce the "green" chances.
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Statistically, the effective research rate of BR should average out to close to double the rate otherwise researched by rp.
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08-16-2013, 01:39 PM
Post: #18
RE: Brilliant Researchers
(08-16-2013 12:42 PM)rocco Wrote:  I like idea PlanetaryScientist's idea. I played a few turns with the current beta system, and the "less than or equal to" rule takes a lot of fun out of the trait.

I've been playing and i think it is still fun (at least for me). What it isn't is unpredictable.

But i embrace the general concept from PlanetaryScientist.

Now - how about this: the ability to buy brilliant certainty, on par with other major traits. For example

-3 points. Clumsy scientist. There is a 25 (?) percent chance that any science breakthrough fails and you have to start over.

0 points: Not brilliant, research as normal.

3 points: 40% (?) chance of bonus breakthrough

6 points: 100% chance of bonus tech.
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08-16-2013, 02:19 PM
Post: #19
RE: Brilliant Researchers
(08-16-2013 12:31 PM)PlanetaryScientist Wrote:  And after further thought, the question comes up... What if (with BR) a very cheap tech is being researched, like Marine Barracks, with no other tech anywhere near as cheap? Maybe sometimes, nothing comes of it....?

If you're researching the cheapest tech, you don't get anything with it. But at that point you're free to research the NEXT cheapest tech and get barracks for free. Or if there's 2 at the same price more expensive, you have to make a decision whether you'd rather have the guaranteed cheap tech with no bonus, or get the more expensive tech with a bonus but possibly miss the cheap one.

GC ID - VanderLegion, GMT-9. Sandbox GC ID (Beta) - VanderLegion
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08-16-2013, 11:42 PM
Post: #20
RE: Brilliant Researchers
(08-16-2013 01:39 PM)Diebo Wrote:  -3 points. Clumsy scientist. There is a 25 (?) percent chance that any science breakthrough fails and you have to start over.

0 points: Not brilliant, research as normal.

3 points: 40% (?) chance of bonus breakthrough

6 points: 100% chance of bonus tech.

The only scenario i can imagine anyone taking clumsy scientists is in pre-made team games.

Quote:I've been playing and i think it is still fun (at least for me). What it isn't is unpredictable.

BR has traditionally been a gambler's trait. Before, it was 2 levels of unpredictability (40% chance to get, and then random tech). Last version we removed one level of unpredictability, which I liked.

So overall I still favor PlanetaryScientists idea as a good medium between the two; it retains the feeling of BR as a gambler's trait, limits the chances of striking the jackpot better than the current 3x cost implementation, and it helps late game when techs roll over (higher chance of getting the cheaper techs).
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