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Planetary Defence
10-04-2014, 05:13 AM
Post: #1
Planetary Defence
I like the mechanics of blockading, how you can't build ships, build a starbase, or fund building. In a game today, I thought about how it seems unrealistic that you can blockade with just a scout ship. My thought is that it would be interesting if you could put that production on your blockaded planet to use by having defences you could build like a surface to space cannon/missile (like the ion cannon the Rebellian has in Star Wars) that would damage ships in orbit. I figure that it should be balanced so single frigates won't last long but large ships or fleets would not be too affected. I can't decide if the attack should be random or not, it doesn't sound too unreasonable to let you target a ship.

Curious what other peoples thoughts are Smile
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10-04-2014, 05:30 AM
Post: #2
RE: Planetary Defence
(10-04-2014 05:13 AM)Globberlot Wrote:  I like the mechanics of blockading, how you can't build ships, build a starbase, or fund building. In a game today, I thought about how it seems unrealistic that you can blockade with just a scout ship. My thought is that it would be interesting if you could put that production on your blockaded planet to use by having defences you could build like a surface to space cannon/missile (like the ion cannon the Rebellian has in Star Wars) that would damage ships in orbit. I figure that it should be balanced so single frigates won't last long but large ships or fleets would not be too affected. I can't decide if the attack should be random or not, it doesn't sound too unreasonable to let you target a ship.

Curious what other peoples thoughts are Smile

I like the idea of taking the limited space on planets to put in weapons, and it has been mentioned before. To be fair, there would need to be a method for the opponent to attack it (and not just bombard, target buildings). Perhaps the planet would show up as a starbase, and if there were any weapons (or shields - you could add shields) they could be destroyed by targeting the planet. Maybe something for SO2? If someone wants to deck out their huge planet with lots of weapons, let them. Would encourage improved colony infrastructure for sure. But you'd have to build them (like a factory or something) so they wouldn't be free like on a starbase. Maybe each one comes with some amount of shield/armor/structure? Or maybe once you build the structure, you could arm it with whatever weapon you want (it would show up like a secondary starbase, but be called Ground Defense 1, 2, 3?). Maybe GD1 takes 1 space, GD2 2, GD3 takes 3 spaces? And would be a researchable tech?

Another idea is that maybe the there needs to be an overwhelming forces check before ship/starbase/etc. building is considered "blockaded"? Say 500 credits worth of ships? Or a CP count? You can block with 4 CP worth of ships? Preferably armed with something other than a kitchen knife?
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10-04-2014, 07:52 AM
Post: #3
RE: Planetary Defence
(10-04-2014 05:30 AM)Diebo Wrote:  
(10-04-2014 05:13 AM)Globberlot Wrote:  I like the mechanics of blockading, how you can't build ships, build a starbase, or fund building. In a game today, I thought about how it seems unrealistic that you can blockade with just a scout ship. My thought is that it would be interesting if you could put that production on your blockaded planet to use by having defences you could build like a surface to space cannon/missile (like the ion cannon the Rebellian has in Star Wars) that would damage ships in orbit. I figure that it should be balanced so single frigates won't last long but large ships or fleets would not be too affected. I can't decide if the attack should be random or not, it doesn't sound too unreasonable to let you target a ship.

Curious what other peoples thoughts are Smile

I like the idea of taking the limited space on planets to put in weapons, and it has been mentioned before. To be fair, there would need to be a method for the opponent to attack it (and not just bombard, target buildings). Perhaps the planet would show up as a starbase, and if there were any weapons (or shields - you could add shields) they could be destroyed by targeting the planet. Maybe something for SO2? If someone wants to deck out their huge planet with lots of weapons, let them. Would encourage improved colony infrastructure for sure. But you'd have to build them (like a factory or something) so they wouldn't be free like on a starbase. Maybe each one comes with some amount of shield/armor/structure? Or maybe once you build the structure, you could arm it with whatever weapon you want (it would show up like a secondary starbase, but be called Ground Defense 1, 2, 3?). Maybe GD1 takes 1 space, GD2 2, GD3 takes 3 spaces? And would be a researchable tech?

Another idea is that maybe the there needs to be an overwhelming forces check before ship/starbase/etc. building is considered "blockaded"? Say 500 credits worth of ships? Or a CP count? You can block with 4 CP worth of ships? Preferably armed with something other than a kitchen knife?

I actually like the thought of planetary based weapons that can't be targeted by the opponent's ships. It would actually make planetary bombardment desirable. As it is, i don't remember the last time I saw anyone actually use it. If there were planetary based weapons though, you could add a new category to the bombardment (target defensive structures, would kill weapons and military barracks) and it would become useful.

The way I see it, planet based weaopns would do nothing in combat (wouldn't want to risk hitting your own ships, and opponent is too busy fighting you to do anything about it). They're only purpose would be to break opponent's blockades. It could probably be set up to work similar to bombardment, where you select the fleet, have some basic targeting options perhaps and fire. Opponent's as i said would have the ability to knock them out with bombardment.

It would add another level of tactics to blockading. Right now, theres absolutely 0 reason not to send a frigate to every opopnent's system in range if they don't have a fleet or starbases to kill them off. And once an opponent has a ship (or fleet) in one of your systems, that system is 100% helpless until you can get a fleet there to try to free it. Planet based weapons would give you an option to try to free the planet without an entire fleet backing you up, or perhaps weapon the opponent's blockading fleet for when yours shows up to attack.

It could also interact with troop ships potentially. Maybe you have an option to target either combat ships or non-combat. If you target troop ships, there'd be some % chance to hit and if hit, would destroy the ship. Dunno what the hit chance would have to be to be balanced. Would depend on how the weapon was designed, how early you could research it, how much it would cost to build, etc. I would argue for this to happen before the troop ships attacked you in the case of both happening on one turn (basically, you're trying to shoot them down before they make it to the surface, they're trying to evade while they land). You could even have a higher hit chance if they're just sitting in orbit as opposed to actively trying to land that turn.

GC ID - VanderLegion, GMT-9. Sandbox GC ID (Beta) - VanderLegion
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10-04-2014, 08:43 AM
Post: #4
RE: Planetary Defence
There is precedence for this in Master Of Orion 2, and is an aspect I miss from that game. This link here gives an overview : http://strategywiki.org/wiki/Master_of_O...d_defenses

On the other hand, the current system of being able to blockade with a single frigate does cut down on the dreaded end-game mop-up phase that was always the scourge of this genre of game.
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10-04-2014, 08:49 AM
Post: #5
RE: Planetary Defence
(10-04-2014 05:30 AM)Diebo Wrote:  Another idea is that maybe the there needs to be an overwhelming forces check before ship/starbase/etc. building is considered "blockaded"? Say 500 credits worth of ships? Or a CP count? You can block with 4 CP worth of ships? Preferably armed with something other than a kitchen knife?

I'm not sure that there necessarily needs to be a credit or cp limit on ships to blockade. There's already a trait (smugglers?) that makes it so the opponent needs more ships to blockade, I'm ok with it staying at that. I WOULD be entirely in favor of there requiring at least 1 actaul weapon in order to blockade though, so you can't do it with unarmed frigates (essentially, treat anything that doesn't have any weapons as non-combat).

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10-04-2014, 09:54 AM
Post: #6
RE: Planetary Defence
(10-04-2014 08:49 AM)VanderLegion Wrote:  I WOULD be entirely in favor of there requiring at least 1 actaul weapon in order to blockade though, so you can't do it with unarmed frigates (essentially, treat anything that doesn't have any weapons as non-combat).

I can confirm that in beta testing, only ships with weapons count for blockading purposes in the upcoming patch.
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10-04-2014, 03:49 PM
Post: #7
RE: Planetary Defence
(10-04-2014 09:54 AM)Davabled Wrote:  
(10-04-2014 08:49 AM)VanderLegion Wrote:  I WOULD be entirely in favor of there requiring at least 1 actaul weapon in order to blockade though, so you can't do it with unarmed frigates (essentially, treat anything that doesn't have any weapons as non-combat).

I can confirm that in beta testing, only ships with weapons count for blockading purposes in the upcoming patch.

Oh nice. I hvaen't had the chance to play much this beta. That's good at least.

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10-05-2014, 08:53 AM (This post was last modified: 10-05-2014 08:55 AM by Sanbi.)
Post: #8
RE: Planetary Defence
I actually wouldn't like this idea. The 20 marines from an early placed barracks II are already a huge deterrent/ way to buy time, and players should be punished for failing to build ships and star bases in advance. I like being able to take the risk of splitting my fleets sometimes for a wider blockade, and having to attack every single planet with a mass of ships with orbital bombardment would be as noted above, a boring drag on the endgame.

Dynamic games where people poke and move ships around like a game of cat and mouse are much more fun than ones where you get pinned for days blockading one system because you're destroying starbases, killing marines, and now destroying planetary canons. If you do implement it, it'd be better to put it deep in the research tree close to where orbital bombardment appears so it won't affect fast games.
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10-05-2014, 09:50 AM
Post: #9
RE: Planetary Defence
(10-05-2014 08:53 AM)Sanbi Wrote:  I actually wouldn't like this idea. The 20 marines from an early placed barracks II are already a huge deterrent/ way to buy time, and players should be punished for failing to build ships and star bases in advance. I like being able to take the risk of splitting my fleets sometimes for a wider blockade, and having to attack every single planet with a mass of ships with orbital bombardment would be as noted above, a boring drag on the endgame.

Dynamic games where people poke and move ships around like a game of cat and mouse are much more fun than ones where you get pinned for days blockading one system because you're destroying starbases, killing marines, and now destroying planetary canons. If you do implement it, it'd be better to put it deep in the research tree close to where orbital bombardment appears so it won't affect fast games.

Remember that you can't buy production at a blockaded system, so it's not like your opponent can just keep buying planetary cannons or whatever every turn. They'll only be able to get new ones as fast as they can build them. How fast that would be would depend on how much they cost, the players racial build, and the planet in question. And if a planet has 20 marines, it's a planet that's definitely worth the effort to kill. Far more so than a planet with only a copula pop and 3 or 4 marines with 1 building.

I do agree that if implemented it should appear about the same time as orbital bombardment since that'd be the direct counter to it.

And the way I see it, a cannon (or cannons) wouldn't be designed to counter a large fleet. I could see 1 cannon being able to destroy maybe 1 frigate (or 1 troop ship) in a turn. I could even see it taking a coupla turns to kill 1 frigate. So even if you're in an all frigate fleet, as long as you have more than a couple of ships it'd take a lot of turns or a lot of cannons to be a danger to a real fleet, I mainly see it as a way to counter being blockaded by 1 or 2 ships. I would also be entirely in favor of a large maintenance cost (and/or taking up multiple building slots) to deter players from just stacking defense cannons on every planet they control, so they're only built on planets either already blockaded or in danger of becoming so. You might keep them on each of your front-line systems, but not the rest.

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