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reinforcement
10-06-2014, 10:15 PM (This post was last modified: 10-06-2014 10:56 PM by JabaMaya.)
Post: #1
reinforcement
hi

i am just playing a 1v1 tournament game agains NewRussia and it happened, that we have a fight at my SB2 protected star system. He wasn't able to destroy the star base in one round. I expected that and sent reinforcement.
So my SB is still alive and my reinforcement, only one ship with expensive, advance ion cannon were destroy by the "overwhelming" fleet.
Mmh, that reinforcement would really make a difference in the next turn of the fight, because all his missiles are used and there are only a couple of laser ships from him, that can still attack.
Is that the expected behaviour or is it a bug?
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10-07-2014, 12:23 AM
Post: #2
RE: reinforcement
Unfortunately for you, this does not sound like a bug. It sounds like one of the edge cases for the Overwhelming Forces rule that could perhaps be improved.

To get overwhelming forces, if I recall, you need to be sending in less than 10 percent of the production value of the opposing fleet. The starbase adds to that cost, but not much (like 1000 or something). In this case, I am guessing that the turn before you sent the reinforcement, you still had your ships, so there was no overwhelming forces message. New Russian's nuke ships probably killed those off with enough alive to trigger the Overwhelming Force rule.

There are really two problems here:

1. You didn't receive an overwhelming force warning. I don't see a way to fix this. Given the available information before the ship committed to its flight, it was accurate.

2. Your ship could actually have helped in combat. This is hard – generally, when your opponent's fleet is at least 10x the cost of yours, your ships aren't going to meaningfully result in damage. In the past, sending a wimpy scout to lock down a fleet was the problem. But there was a lot of debate as to what constitutes "overwhelming". For only five percent, you can cheaply afford to lock down a large fleet. At 20 percent, you could actually contribute to damage. The entire rule wouldn't be necessary if people would just use an honor system of not abusing the game mechanics. But some people did not consider it to be a game mechanic issue, so the rule was enacted. It is not perfect, but it is better than no rule.

I do have a recommendation that would fix this particular case, and similar cases. I recommend that if you have an surviving starbase, that you should be able reinforce it without triggering Overwhelming Forces. Give the benefit of doubt to the defender. You can't build a starbase once the opponent destroys it and is blockading you.
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10-07-2014, 12:30 AM
Post: #3
RE: reinforcement
Diebo pretty much nails it. Although you should submit a bug report anyway, since that allows me to examine the case with all of the information available to me.
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10-07-2014, 04:23 AM
Post: #4
RE: reinforcement
(10-07-2014 12:23 AM)Diebo Wrote:  I do have a recommendation that would fix this particular case, and similar cases. I recommend that if you have an surviving starbase, that you should be able reinforce it without triggering Overwhelming Forces. Give the benefit of doubt to the defender. You can't build a starbase once the opponent destroys it and is blockading you.

I like this suggestion, gets my vote.

GC ID: E45y Rid3r
Season 1 Saturn Division Champion
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10-07-2014, 05:46 AM
Post: #5
RE: reinforcement
I thought overwhelming force wasn't supposed to trigger if you had surviving ships in an existing combat, only if all current ships were dead and only reinforcements were remaining?

GC ID - VanderLegion, GMT-9. Sandbox GC ID (Beta) - VanderLegion
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10-07-2014, 06:43 AM
Post: #6
RE: reinforcement
(10-06-2014 10:15 PM)JabaMaya Wrote:  ...
Mmh, that reinforcement would really make a difference in the next turn of the fight, because all his missiles are used and there are only a couple of laser ships from him, that can still attack.
...

I think spent nuke/torps only ships that aren't being reloaded because enemy forces have not been eliminated should have a production value of Zero for the overwhelming force calculation. Because they are harmless and as good as unarmed at this point, a lone frigate with an energy weapon can and should be allowed to shoot a couple of these down.
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10-07-2014, 06:58 AM
Post: #7
RE: reinforcement
(10-07-2014 06:43 AM)sfx51 Wrote:  
(10-06-2014 10:15 PM)JabaMaya Wrote:  ...
Mmh, that reinforcement would really make a difference in the next turn of the fight, because all his missiles are used and there are only a couple of laser ships from him, that can still attack.
...

I think spent nuke/torps only ships that aren't being reloaded because enemy forces have not been eliminated should have a production value of Zero for the overwhelming force calculation. Because they are harmless and as good as unarmed at this point, a lone frigate with an energy weapon can and should be allowed to shoot a couple of these down.

Also a good point

GC ID - VanderLegion, GMT-9. Sandbox GC ID (Beta) - VanderLegion
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10-08-2014, 06:59 AM (This post was last modified: 10-08-2014 07:01 AM by JabaMaya.)
Post: #8
RE: reinforcement
if my sb is still alive, it is MY system. I should be able to do what ever i want there. My starbase should be right enough.

@ diebo: and btw. i hadnt any ships in the system, i rely on the sb. so no destroyed ships were involved in the calculation. and i am not sure about, if i got a overwhelming message Undecided
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