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v1.1.4 General Feedback
05-08-2012, 02:44 AM (This post was last modified: 05-08-2012 02:45 AM by VanderLegion.)
Post: #31
RE: v1.1.4 General Feedback
(05-08-2012 02:37 AM)Bruin Wrote:  Perhaps rather than a set X CP = X Monster ratio, a system where the number of monsters scales increasingly more might be considered? First Crystal requires 12 CP. Second requires 18. And so forth. It could be handled with equations, obviously, to avoid the need of creating an annoying index.

This actually makes sense. Or perhaps something could be implemented that makes space monsters themselves become more powerful as the game progresses? Maybe something as simple as saying they "grow" over time (since they're alive...ish), which increases their armor/hull and weapon damage as the game progresses. This could apply to normally encountered monsters as well so there's still the potential to be dangerous to a small fleet if you leave them for a long time.

Quote:As for Gorzhons' ship itself, I think I have a much better idea for it. How about scaling his Dark Matter production to the size of the ship itself? Put him on a scout and he produces only one Dark Matter. Put him on a Mammoth and he produces a quite startling quantity. This will allow him to scale with the game and will add a definite incentive to deploy him into active combat. (With two Dark Matter on his ship there would be great reason to deploy him very early; little reason to deploy him later in the game). Think of it as something akin to the Easter Bunny. He's dangerous at any stage in the game, but he's *always* dangerous because his power scales with technology and the size of the ship (the starbase) he is placed on.

I like this too. It also gives much more encouragement to actually put him ON a ship, instead of leaving him unassigned to prevent sabotage. My above suggestion of making monsters scale over the course of the game would also make it more useful to have him on a ship later in the game.

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05-08-2012, 02:47 AM
Post: #32
RE: v1.1.4 General Feedback
re: dark matter incubators scaling with ship size; I like this. If I do this though, then I think the hatchery's complement of dark matter should be drastically reduced or removed altogether. i.e., this shift the hatchery to being a thing to be protected, vs a killing machine being sent to the front lines (although you can still get this early game by putting Gorzhons on the Hatchery).
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05-08-2012, 02:48 AM
Post: #33
RE: v1.1.4 General Feedback
(05-08-2012 02:44 AM)rocco Wrote:  re: amoeba's and crystals not scaling late game; My intent is that monsters be fill out the dangerous role early-mid game, but late game their role becomes more cannon fodder. 10 free battleships and titan-like meat shields can still make a large difference in a late game battle.

I can see this as well. Though monsters' power scaling over the course of the game if it were implemented I would say could be done instead of scaling the number as opposed to at the same time.

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05-08-2012, 02:57 AM (This post was last modified: 05-08-2012 02:58 AM by Bruin.)
Post: #34
RE: v1.1.4 General Feedback
(05-08-2012 02:44 AM)VanderLegion Wrote:  This actually makes sense. Or perhaps something could be implemented that makes space monsters themselves become more powerful as the game progresses? Maybe something as simple as saying they "grow" over time (since they're alive...ish), which increases their armor/hull and weapon damage as the game progresses. This could apply to normally encountered monsters as well so there's still the potential to be dangerous to a small fleet if you leave them for a long time.

Expanding on this, I think it would be quite fun if monsters did progress on some level through the game. It would add a little bit of strategy in deciding how you want to deal with the Crystal sitting on that Huge, Rich, Terran planet in your backyard.

That is, in addition to influencing the issues we're discussing here. Though I do see your point about meat shields, Rocco. I have a feeling that the balance on this is something which people are going to have to test out through games, but unless this fellow's nerfed too much, he's probably going to be a pretty hot ticket leader so I doubt testing will be a problem. Converting the Hatchery into a production-only ship also sounds viable. It would be worth building early for the monsters; later because it wouldn't be expensive to build (or for any other number of reasons depending on how monsters are handled). There's also the option of limiting its ability to interact as a military vessel somehow while retaining some dark matter defenses (e.g. not producing monsters, causing it to multiply the travel time of its fleet by 2x, etc.).

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05-08-2012, 03:01 AM (This post was last modified: 05-08-2012 03:04 AM by falanor4421.)
Post: #35
RE: v1.1.4 General Feedback
Quote:I would say if the number of incubators on the hatchery is reduced, the spawn rate shouldn't be reduced as well, it should be one or the other. If it's dropped to 6, it should stay at 10 turns. Or it could stay at 12 and be reduced to 15 or 20 turns instead.

Thats what I meant. If it stays at twelve generators than the frequency of the generation is toned down.

Quote:I like that idea. I'm assuming you'd get an Amoeba at 5 and 10, then crystal at 15 with no new amoeba, etc. That'd keep the current balance of crystals to amoebas

I wasn't thinking that, but it would work too. Good idea.

Quote:re: amoeba's and crystals not scaling late game; My intent is that monsters be fill out the dangerous role early-mid game, but late game their role becomes more cannon fodder. 10 free battleships and titan-like meat shields can still make a large difference in a late game battle.

Exactly. They may not be dangerous, but they will draw some fire on them, and off of my more specialized ships. I don't care if they are just fodder in the end game, I like fodder. Especially when that fodder is free!

Quote:re: dark matter incubators scaling with ship size; I like this. If I do this though, then I think the hatchery's complement of dark matter should be drastically reduced or removed altogether. i.e., this shift the hatchery to being a thing to be protected, vs a killing machine being sent to the front lines (although you can still get this early game by putting Gorzhons on the Hatchery).

I don't think they should be removed completely, but reduced would work. I like the idea that it needs to be protected, but it should provide some protection itself.

Also, what about my idea of moving the hatchery. If you move it the monster spawning process is disrupted for, say, 3 turns after the move. And, no matter the CP level, it takes 4 -5 turns to spawn an Amoeba and 10 turns to spawn a crystal. This way you could STILL take it with you to combat, especially if you put Gorzhons on it, but make it be an actual sacrifice to do so.

Quote:saying they "grow" over time (since they're alive...ish), which increases their armor/hull and weapon damage as the game progresses. This could apply to normally encountered monsters as well so there's still the potential to be dangerous to a small fleet if you leave them for a long time.

I like this idea. Every 10 turns after a monster spawns it gains health and armor, maybe? And attack value.


(05-08-2012 02:57 AM)Bruin Wrote:  
(05-08-2012 02:44 AM)VanderLegion Wrote:  This actually makes sense. Or perhaps something could be implemented that makes space monsters themselves become more powerful as the game progresses? Maybe something as simple as saying they "grow" over time (since they're alive...ish), which increases their armor/hull and weapon damage as the game progresses. This could apply to normally encountered monsters as well so there's still the potential to be dangerous to a small fleet if you leave them for a long time.

Expanding on this, I think it would be quite fun if monsters did progress on some level through the game. It would add a little bit of strategy in deciding how you want to deal with the Crystal sitting on that Huge, Rich, Terran planet in your backyard.

That is, in addition to influencing the issues we're discussing here. Though I do see your point about meat shields, Rocco. I have a feeling that the balance on this is something which people are going to have to test out through games, but unless this fellow's nerfed too much, he's probably going to be a pretty hot ticket leader so I doubt testing will be a problem. Converting the Hatchery into a production-only ship also sounds viable. It would be worth building early for the monsters; later because it wouldn't be expensive to build (or for any other number of reasons depending on how monsters are handled). There's also the option of limiting its ability to interact as a military vessel somehow while retaining some dark matter defenses (e.g. not producing monsters, causing it to multiply the travel time of its fleet by 2x, etc.).

I like the idea of slower travel times. We could couple this with my idea, that the hatchery only hatches monsters when it is orbiting, not when it is traveling. And the process of traveling destroys any eggs in this ship, thus resetting the hatching timer.

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05-08-2012, 03:07 AM
Post: #36
RE: v1.1.4 General Feedback
(05-08-2012 02:44 AM)rocco Wrote:  re: amoeba's and crystals not scaling late game; My intent is that monsters be fill out the dangerous role early-mid game, but late game their role becomes more cannon fodder. 10 free battleships and titan-like meat shields can still make a large difference in a late game battle.

The other side of this argument is that the leaders are INTENDED to be powerful. The way it stands right now, Gorzhons vs The Burrow, the hatchery/monster fleet I'm betting would get wiped out, depending how far into the game at least. If the opponent has gotten far enough to get reinforced bulkheads, I'm pretty sure the burrow would destroy the monster fleet. Without that, the monsters might have a chance...depends what weapons the burrow has probably.

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05-08-2012, 03:27 AM
Post: #37
RE: v1.1.4 General Feedback
(05-08-2012 03:07 AM)VanderLegion Wrote:  The other side of this argument is that the leaders are INTENDED to be powerful. The way it stands right now, Gorzhons vs The Burrow, the hatchery/monster fleet I'm betting would get wiped out, depending how far into the game at least. If the opponent has gotten far enough to get reinforced bulkheads, I'm pretty sure the burrow would destroy the monster fleet. Without that, the monsters might have a chance...depends what weapons the burrow has probably.

I would label Gorzhons more powerful than the bunny. I don't disagree that the Burrow would win in a straight up fight, but the burrow cannot be picked up and moved around. Gorzhons monsters have a lot of strategic uses outside of the battlefield; an entire CP-free ship to hassle your enemies flanks.
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05-08-2012, 03:29 AM (This post was last modified: 05-08-2012 04:11 AM by VanderLegion.)
Post: #38
RE: v1.1.4 General Feedback
(05-08-2012 03:27 AM)rocco Wrote:  
(05-08-2012 03:07 AM)VanderLegion Wrote:  The other side of this argument is that the leaders are INTENDED to be powerful. The way it stands right now, Gorzhons vs The Burrow, the hatchery/monster fleet I'm betting would get wiped out, depending how far into the game at least. If the opponent has gotten far enough to get reinforced bulkheads, I'm pretty sure the burrow would destroy the monster fleet. Without that, the monsters might have a chance...depends what weapons the burrow has probably.

I would label Gorzhons more powerful than the bunny. I don't disagree that the Burrow would win in a straight up fight, but the burrow cannot be picked up and moved around. Gorzhons monsters have a lot of strategic uses outside of the battlefield; an entire CP-free ship to hassle your enemies flanks.

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I've been getting a lot of crashes in SP. I went into the file system on my phone and deleted out all the old crash logs I had in there (like 400 of them total, some from SO, lots from others as well). After doing that I actually GOT a new crash log with the latest crash, so I just sent emailed it in, I'll email any more I get from now on as well as long as I keep getting the crash logs.

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05-08-2012, 04:16 AM
Post: #39
RE: v1.1.4 General Feedback
Ok, this is how I plan to change for Gorzhan's in tonights build. Something to play test, we'll tweak further.

1) all dark matter incubators will be removed from the hatchery

2) Gorzhons: his dark matter incubators scale with ship size (1 = frigate, 2 = destroyer, 3 = cruiser, 5 = battleship, 6 = titan, 8 = mammoth). This means that early-mid game you will want to have gorzhons captain the hatchery to get max spawns. late game you likely would transition him to a beefier mammoth, and store your hatchery elsewhere to breed.

3) There will be a maximum number of spawned dark matter allowed per combat; we'll start with a limit of 4 dark matter per dark matter incubator. Incubators will keep their current rate of spawning.

4) the hatchery will be unique

5) the maximum number of amoeba allowed will be based on empire CP, at a rate of max amoebas = atan( CP / 50 ) * 10. that boils down to: 5 CP = 1, 10 CP = 2, 15 CP = 3, 21 CP = 4, 27 CP = 5, 34 CP = 6, 42 CP = 7

6) the maximum number of crystals allowed will be based on empire CP, at a rate of max crystals = atan( CP / 50 ) * 6. that boils down to: 10 CP = 1, 21 CP = 2, 34 CP = 3, 51 CP = 4, 78 CP = 5, 135 CP = 6

7) monsters will regenerate health out of combat at some rate TBD
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05-08-2012, 04:25 AM
Post: #40
RE: v1.1.4 General Feedback
How big is the "center of the galaxy" for the randomness in MP games? I've got a game going with falanor on a...I think massive galaxy. Game started out with only 1 other system in range of my starting planet, I went there, colonized it,t hen started exploring from there and I have yet to use my other starting colony ship because I've gotten 5 lost colonies and just keep exploring, haven't found anything I actually felt I needed to colonize beyond those yet. From what i can tell from falanor's comments (as I've commented on finding the LCs) he's either not gotten any, or at least no where near the 5 I have. It's hard to tell what planets are in the center vs which are in the mirrored slices sometimes. I have at least 1 or two that look like they're probably in the center, the others I'm not sure about

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