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Battle Lineup
03-09-2013, 01:59 AM
Post: #1
Battle Lineup
I think that the ability to change the battle lineup would add a great dimension to the game.

Currently, no matter how larger the fleet, the battle starts up with all big ships in the middle, with little ships spread across the horizon in a straight line.

I would recommend three tweaks that would increase strategy.

1. Allow players to set a command for how many rows the ships show up in. Right now there is one row. Allow users to choose between 1-4 rows.

2. Allow players to classify ships by some preset "types" in ship design. For example, Long range, Medium Range, Hold, Short Range, Evasion

3. Allow players to choose preset ship locations by ship size and "type". For example, currently all big ships are in the middle, little ships are on the edges.

Visualize this:

Choose 3 rows for a fleet of about 30 ships. 12 proton frigates, 10 plasma cruisers, 6 IPC Titans, 2 Mammoth ships with Leaders. Let's say you want Capt Jack in back, and Hanifer in front, the IPC titans up front, the cruisers in back, and the frigates in the middle.

How would the order of operations work?

First, it would look at the number of rows you want. Three in this case, so it would divide the 30 ships into 3 groups of 10 (28 would be in 1 group of 10 and 2 groups of 9).

Second, it would look at where you want ships by type. Assume:
-Label IPC titans "Short Range".
-Label Hanifer as "Short Range".
-Label the Cruisers as "Long Range"
-Label the Frigates as "Medium Range" (for the purpose of ship placement)
-Label ship type with Capt Jack as "Evasion"

This would put 6 IPC titans in front, 1 mammoth with Hanifer in front, 12 frigates in the middle, 10 cruisers in back, and Capt Jack in back. Because there are three groups, it would be broken down by 6 titans, 1 mammoth, and 3 frigates in the first row, 9 frigates and a cruiser in the second row (because "evasion is farther back than "long range"), and 9 cruisers and Capt Jack in the back row.

Next, look at ship order by size. In this case, choose Largest on the outside. Could do this by row, or just for the overall fleet.

In this case, in Row 1 Hanifer would be on the outside. 3 frigates in the front row would be in the middle. The IPC titans would be on the outside.

In Row 2, the frigates would be in the middle, and the lone cruiser would be on the outside.

In Row 3, Capt Jack would be on the outside. Cruisers would fill the rest of the space.

And you enemy could choose one row, with all big ships on outside (assume they have a bunch of frigates with proton that they want to discharge asap, and a bunch of big ships with plasma that they want to keep long range, so starting on the far edge would help).

As a preset, this would apply to ALL battles until you change it (at least the way I am currently thinking about it). You would set this in the military screen, not on an individual battle basis. Sort of like setting all starbases to a certain weapon/system configuration. Not because it is better, but because it would probably be easier to program.
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03-10-2013, 01:55 AM
Post: #2
RE: Battle Lineup
+1 I think this would definitely improve battles plus it annoys me when the fleets go off the screen!

GC ID: *-=KC Black Hawke=-* GMT+0
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03-10-2013, 08:39 AM
Post: #3
RE: Battle Lineup
+1 cool idea.
+1 for the 3d battle too

Supreme commander all the way.

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03-10-2013, 05:52 PM
Post: #4
RE: Battle Lineup
This is something that has been suggested before, and I'll always +1 this. I don't care as much for the 3d, as cool as that would be. But I would LOVE the Battle lineup.

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03-11-2013, 12:10 AM
Post: #5
RE: Battle Lineup
It might be easier to code/implement if it was implemented in phases/SBO versions:

Phase 1: Automatically split fleet into more than one battle line based on fleet size. Maybe have 20 ships maximum in a line.
Phase 2: Allow user choice in number of battle lines (instead of automatic)
Phase 3: Allow player choice in location of ships within the line by ship size.
Phase 4: Allow player choice in location within the line by ship "type".
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03-12-2013, 04:21 PM
Post: #6
RE: Battle Lineup
(03-10-2013 05:52 PM)falanor4421 Wrote:  This is something that has been suggested before, and I'll always +1 this. I don't care as much for the 3d, as cool as that would be. But I would LOVE the Battle lineup.

You know, I agree. After some real good battles, this is not the place for 3D. So I will be deleting those comments. I came here with my Ascendancy conditioning and kind of let that adhere my perspective.

After some crazy battles these past few days - the things I didn't really like as much (dial control) I am loving now. 3D is definitely not the place for here. The battles are very lively and entertaining to watch.

Formations though is a must! With the ability to create a library to store a vast amount. I think the next step after formations would be assigning attack/flank positions from within our formations - of course we would create these as well and save them in library.

Example, ships would start with formation "pattern a"
And then proceed into attack alpha "pattern b"
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03-12-2013, 11:01 PM
Post: #7
RE: Battle Lineup
I think this could be a Military Tech that could be researched - for instance, Fleet Battle Tactics (Levels I, II, and III), that let you arrange your fleets in rows, by Trained Class, and another tech, Fleet Battle Specialization Training, that allow your fleets to assign roles and then assign those roles to the rows.

Roles to Rows. Yeah... hehehe.

I'm losing sleep right now trying to figure out a way to set up some close range, fast, heavily armed ships to rush to Close Range, and then setting up some slow, long range ships to hang back and open long range fire, to peel back defenses.

I feel like our fleets line up like the British soldiers did in the 1700's - why can't we have some Guerrilla style tactics, instead?

(Maybe our officers are all gentlemen, and want to have tea up on the hillside?)
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03-12-2013, 11:59 PM
Post: #8
RE: Battle Lineup
Another idea: Drag-and-drop fleet setup.

If you click on a fleet, it would show a screen filled with empty boxes sized four columns by one row that is as long as you have ships. If you have 10 ships, there would be 10 x 4 = 40 boxes.

1. Default would be to have all the ships in the first row, lined up like they currently are.

2. If you wanted, you could drag ships to any empty box. If you drag a ship to a box that has another ship, they either swap places (or you have to move that one first, whichever is easier to code).

3. Using this system, you could spend as little or as much time as you wanted with ship arrangement. All the proton on the outside/back. Or the entire fleet in the bottom corner in a block. Or a block of ships right in the center.

4. Fleet setup would need to happen after ship movement, but before ship battle (enemy wouldn't know starting position until battle orders are set). Ongoing reinforcements something to consider. Not sure atm.

5. This would encourage use of a lot of ships of various sizes. And it would be a lot of fun.

6. Starbases: I think they should be treated like any ship, but I would be totally Ok with them in the middle of field, too.
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03-13-2013, 12:53 AM
Post: #9
RE: Battle Lineup
I'm ok with the idea of this being a tech to research. While it would add yet MORE to the tree, I think it makes sense to do so.

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03-13-2013, 04:44 AM (This post was last modified: 03-13-2013 04:58 AM by tactfulgamer.)
Post: #10
RE: Battle Lineup
(03-13-2013 12:53 AM)falanor4421 Wrote:  I'm ok with the idea of this being a tech to research. While it would add yet MORE to the tree, I think it makes sense to do so.

Research tech for battle formations?
What if it does not come up in your tech tree? (or even in time)

I honestly think there are more important things to research - we do fine now without it battle wise, by that I mean - While you are busy teching this or following a tech route to get to it - your opponent done got the jump on you by moving on to population/production growth techs. Step ahead.

I could see if this added a huge extra advantage battle wise, but I really don't see it having that much impact. I could be wrong of course.

I assume this would be early game tech no?
Growth/Production I feel are most important early.

Formations though, is just formations (not an attack) - I think this should just be natural from the get go. Gives us something to do during those dead turns where we are waiting on stuff to be researched/built. We can just start creating formations.

Now since you want research what I think would fit that is the *Attack Lines*
This would be how you guys attack out of a formation. (though I really prefer none of this to be researched but we'll go with your theory)

In chess, you have chess openings when you first open up (these are the formations) but the formation is only an extension (precursor) to setup or in preparation to setting up the right *attack lines*.

I think when you guys say formation you mean the whole thing (including attack lines) but they should be separated as they both are individual entities that compliment each other. One cannot exist without the other.

That said, setting up attack lines is a whole different beast.
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