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Battle Lineup
03-13-2013, 05:03 AM
Post: #11
RE: Battle Lineup
Personally, I don't think you should need to research a tech for battle setup.

If the tech provided some other advantage that starting location, I could see it being justified. Maybe increased hit chance or damage, or increased evasion. But just where you start out in the line (or lines)? That should be available to everyone from the start. Any race that has mastered interstellar flight should be able to tell their ships where to go in a lineup before battle

Where you start out in the line CAN make a big difference in battle outcome, however. And I would like control over that, if possible. In this game, one or two key battles often determines the winner.
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03-13-2013, 05:40 AM
Post: #12
RE: Battle Lineup
Battle formations has been a long time request. Some of the issues I've had with it:

1) I like players being able to see formations immediately upon entering combat. So in my mind formations need to be set prior to any combat, and battle orders are set during combat (tweaks to a pre-set formation, as it were).

2) Battle formations should not add more time needed to resolve combat (so no extra turns to specify formations)

3) Saving formation across games is difficult, unless they're done in generalities and not specifics.

The natural thought given the above is to be able to specify a formation for a fleet in the galaxy screen. However, fleets in SO are very fluid things, as they are the combined forces of all ships at a system. Updating fleet formations each time another ship gets added would introduce a lot of micromanagement headache.



I kinda like the concept of specifying generic fleet positioning in the design screen. So you build a ship for missile harassment and you label its position as something like "in the back". You build a tank mammoth with IPC and label it for "in the front".

Saving this information with the ship and keeping it as a system of rules allows any fleet to be laid out however necessary by the game and does not introduce any additional player handling.
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03-13-2013, 05:43 AM
Post: #13
RE: Battle Lineup
I kinda like the idea of new tech that allows finer control over fleet positioning. Just because a race has interstellar vessels does not mean they have the military discipline and control necessary to handle complicated fleet maneuvers. I kinda like the idea that a tech be created that's related to ship size; so positioning frigates and destroyers comes for free, and you tech up "combat tactics I" to allow positioning of cruisers and battleships and "combat tactics II" to allow for titans and mammoths.
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03-13-2013, 05:48 AM
Post: #14
RE: Battle Lineup
(03-13-2013 05:40 AM)rocco Wrote:  I kinda like the concept of specifying generic fleet positioning in the design screen. So you build a ship for missile harassment and you label its position as something like "in the back". You build a tank mammoth with IPC and label it for "in the front".

Saving this information with the ship and keeping it as a system of rules allows any fleet to be laid out however necessary by the game and does not introduce any additional player handling.

+1 from me!
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03-13-2013, 07:42 AM (This post was last modified: 03-13-2013 07:46 AM by tactfulgamer.)
Post: #15
RE: Battle Lineup
(03-13-2013 05:40 AM)rocco Wrote:  I kinda like the concept of specifying generic fleet positioning in the design screen. So you build a ship for missile harassment and you label its position as something like "in the back". You build a tank mammoth with IPC and label it for "in the front".

This is exactly what I was talking about with my chess analogy on formations and attack lines.

To keep it simple, let's use baseball terms.
you would assign who is to be the pitcher, batter, outfielder.. etc.
(This would be the *formation aspect* basically how/where they are positioned once they enter the battle)

The second part *attack lines* would be whom you assigned in that formation to commit to specific duties... run intereference, flank, fire volley's from a distance, fly close while evading, etc.

Of course BOTH of these aspects (Formations/Attack Lines) would had been preset loooong before the battle while the person was busy creating formation's and attack lines and adding them into they're strategy library.

All they did prior to the battle was choose from two options out of they're strategy library:(Library should have two sections Formation/Attack Lines)

1) Which Formation to assume out of the 20 or so they have.
2) Which Attack Lines to take out of the 20 or so they have.

Once chosen via our normal dialer, the battle play's out as it normally does now. (Which is how battles are fought in real life in anyway - they choose they're strategy and let it play it out)

If/when Rocco you decide to implement this system only thing added here is the strategy library with formations and attack line choices in the dialer when in battle view.
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03-13-2013, 07:51 AM
Post: #16
RE: Battle Lineup
(03-13-2013 07:42 AM)tactfulgamer Wrote:  Once chosen via our normal dialer, the battle play's out as it normally does now. (Which is how battles are fought in real life in anyway - they choose they're strategy and let it play it out)

If I am reading this correctly, you are suggesting that in the battle view (where you place your movement and targeting orders) you would have a dial which you can set to "attack pattern alpha" or whatever.

The problem is that this breaks rule #1 and rule #2 as I outlined above; it breaks #1 because your opponent (who is theoretically entering their orders at the exact same time you are) cannot see what your combat formation is. It breaks #2 because the only way to support #1 would be to include another round in the combat, one where you set your formation, he sets his, and then you both look at them to set your final targeting / movement orders.
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03-13-2013, 08:05 AM (This post was last modified: 03-13-2013 07:42 PM by tactfulgamer.)
Post: #17
RE: Battle Lineup
(03-13-2013 07:51 AM)rocco Wrote:  
(03-13-2013 07:42 AM)tactfulgamer Wrote:  Once chosen via our normal dialer, the battle play's out as it normally does now. (Which is how battles are fought in real life in anyway - they choose they're strategy and let it play it out)

If I am reading this correctly, you are suggesting that in the battle view (where you place your movement and targeting orders) you would have a dial which you can set to "attack pattern alpha" or whatever.

The problem is that this breaks rule #1 and rule #2 as I outlined above; it breaks #1 because your opponent (who is theoretically entering their orders at the exact same time you are) cannot see what your combat formation is. It breaks #2 because the only way to support #1 would be to include another round in the combat, one where you set your formation, he sets his, and then you both look at them to set your final targeting / movement orders.

Ah, I see.
Since we are just building on theory here, with all due respect Rocco, your proposal of establishing formation while naturally just navigating space...

From where I see it, choosing formation prior to battle while you are just roaming about, with no enemy contact to provide perspective on how best to angle your ships... seems like blind formation to me.

The best formations setup the enemy for the best attack lines.



(03-13-2013 05:43 AM)rocco Wrote:  I kinda like the idea of new tech that allows finer control over fleet positioning. Just because a race has interstellar vessels does not mean they have the military discipline and control necessary to handle complicated fleet maneuvers. I kinda like the idea that a tech be created that's related to ship size; so positioning frigates and destroyers comes for free, and you tech up "combat tactics I" to allow positioning of cruisers and battleships and "combat tactics II" to allow for titans and mammoths.


I missed this. but I like really, really like this.
Lesser ships free, Advanced ships - tech up.
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03-13-2013, 11:44 AM
Post: #18
RE: Battle Lineup
The question is, what happens when advanced ships are placed in battle with controlled smaller ships? Do the advanced ships form in a solid line before, or after the controlled smaller ships? I guess that could depend on the smaller ship's orders....

That said, I like the idea of the levels of tech for control. As was said, yes, these are interstellar races. But command and control in battle is a very tricky, computer intensive thing. In many books i've read, ships are assigned to small battle groups, which are coordinated via computer. As tech advances, more ships can be added to any single group. Add that to SO, but sub groups for fleet coordination, and I think we have a winner.

Rocco, I think your limitations are fine. I'd be more than happy if it was set up that way. So lets get it set up!

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03-13-2013, 12:01 PM
Post: #19
RE: Battle Lineup
(03-13-2013 11:44 AM)falanor4421 Wrote:  The question is, what happens when advanced ships are placed in battle with controlled smaller ships? Do the advanced ships form in a solid line before, or after the controlled smaller ships? I guess that could depend on the smaller ship's orders....

That said, I like the idea of the levels of tech for control. As was said, yes, these are interstellar races. But command and control in battle is a very tricky, computer intensive thing. In many books i've read, ships are assigned to small battle groups, which are coordinated via computer. As tech advances, more ships can be added to any single group. Add that to SO, but sub groups for fleet coordination, and I think we have a winner.

Rocco, I think your limitations are fine. I'd be more than happy if it was set up that way. So lets get it set up!

If you went with 3 rows, front, middle, back, you could have all ships default to middle row, normal order. Tech (or small ships) would allow you to set ships to front or back row as needed.

GC ID - VanderLegion, GMT-9. Sandbox GC ID (Beta) - VanderLegion
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03-13-2013, 11:56 PM
Post: #20
RE: Battle Lineup
I like the direction everything is heading. From long-term grumble and want to potentially workable idea.

-3 rows would be great, per VanderLegion. Middle row for default.
-Pre-program fleets and ships so there aren't extra turns and people can see battle formations before issuing orders.
-Adding new tech to further improve on everything.

Sounds like a plan! Ready, willing, and able to beta test.
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