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Battle Lineup
09-25-2014, 01:34 AM
Post: #31
RE: Battle Lineup
(09-25-2014 01:07 AM)Diebo Wrote:  I think what Roc was saying about #1 and #2 is that this is a multi-person online game and adding extra turns for combat would slow it down too much. It is a compromise. Realism takes a back seat to playability.

That I understand 100%. I'm also against any "turn bloat". What I was saying, why extra turns? Just assign formations on the same turn where we currently give orders. I believe the problem with that enters when, Roc was saying he wanted people to be able to see each one another's formations ahead of time. I was trying to explain why I thought that was expendable or even undesirable.


(09-25-2014 01:07 AM)Diebo Wrote:  RE: Realism. Given that battles happen in space, and people have good scanning technology, I am assuming that people could scan and see fleet position from the start (unless they all warp in and suddenly appear?).

Yeah I guess I always think of it as suddenly warping in. I mean, one turn your fleets are 'away' from the system, unable to interact with it or each other even if 1 turn away, then they suddenly arrive.

Not that realism is the end-all, be-all. Certainly I wouldn't sacrifice game good game mechanics just to suit realism.

(09-25-2014 01:07 AM)Diebo Wrote:  The solution developed on this page would allow for people to more-or-less predetermine starting position for their ships.

I agree that this multiple battle lines and boxes solution could be an excellent upgrade!

(09-25-2014 01:07 AM)Diebo Wrote:  The quickest way to get an idea implemented is to have be simple, intuitive, and "low-hanging fruit" material. Battle formation isn't "low-hanging fruit", as it probably would require significant programming/testing, and trying to explain how to set up the fleets to newbies might not be simple or intuitive. But it is something I would like to see for SO2.

Understand completely about the low-hanging fruit. Battle formations sounds like a lot of UI development (no joke, I know — I work at what is essentially a design company). Still, not a mechanical/advanced change to combat itself because I don't think anyone was saying they'd hold formations perfectly during combat; more about getting them in the right relationship to each other starting out, so the programming that drives combat itself would still play out the same.

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09-25-2014, 02:09 AM
Post: #32
RE: Battle Lineup
Its good for these conversations to be happening now; even if something is too large a change for SO1, doesn't mean its not feasible for SO2.
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09-25-2014, 04:24 AM
Post: #33
RE: Battle Lineup
One idea for formations would be able to specify generalities. So maybe you want all Frigates and Destroyers in the front row, with destroyers in the center of the row, then all cruisers and battleships in the second row with battle ships in the center, then titans and mammoths in the back, with mammoths in the center. That might be an example if you're using pds against an opponent with nukes or torpedoes, keep your biggest ships in the middle-back where they get the most protection from other ships' pds.

Or maybe you want your titans and mammoths in the front row against a different opponent if they need to be able to get closer for whatever reason (IPC?) and you want them to start as close as possible.

So maybe it could be set up so there's 3 possible starting rows, so for each ship type/name, you could specify what row you want it to start in, and whether it should start in the middle or on the outside.

You could even have that be one of the options when building a ship. Set weapons, set systems, set preferred location in a formation. That way it'll be the same for all matching ships, and you don't have to specify it by fleet or set it after battle starts.

You wouldn't be able to tailor it to each specific battle, but as long as you're scouting and know what your opponent is doing, you could still tailor it to their builds. If you know they're using IPC, start in the back row. If you know they're using nukes or plasma, start in the front row to close quicker, etc.

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09-25-2014, 04:56 AM
Post: #34
RE: Battle Lineup
I like the idea of assigning a position ( function? flanker? core? ) at ship design time; it solves and streamlines a lot of issues.
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09-25-2014, 05:04 AM
Post: #35
RE: Battle Lineup
(09-25-2014 04:56 AM)rocco Wrote:  I like the idea of assigning a position ( function? flanker? core? ) at ship design time; it solves and streamlines a lot of issues.

+1 from me. I kind of thought that was what we'd come up with before in this thread (we didn't use the terms flanker/core, but just the idea that you could assign a position). The only problem I see is people wanting to change it after development (say you forgot to call something tank and accidentally called it flank?). But in the big picture, that is a pretty small thing (you can still give it whatever orders you want).

And I argued for the 3 rows just to tighten things up. Most fleets have fewer than 100 ships, which would mean a max of 33 wide (instead of 100). That is 16 on either side of a starbase, which means that most would be part of active combat from the beginning.
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