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Hitting multiple ships with different weapon classes
09-23-2013, 02:28 PM
Post: #1
Hitting multiple ships with different weapon classes
Currently I believe a ship will only target one enemy ship per combat round. An issue with this came up in one of our games where a starbase had gauss and plasma and was targeting a frigate that happened to be at long range. The plasma hit the frigate, but even though there were a bunch of other ships that had charged close to the starbase, the gauss didn't fire; they were considered out of range from the frigate and weren't able to target the closer ships.

It seems like different weapons should be able to target different ships, at least if the weapon class wouldn't fire at all without the ability to target a different ship. If this isn't possible to code easily, I would think the preferred target should be the one where all weapons can hit (in this case one of the ships that had charged close range), but I suspect there may be issues with this approach that I am not thinking of.

What do others think?
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09-23-2013, 04:08 PM
Post: #2
RE: Hitting multiple ships with different weapon classes
Easy +1 from me since I've suggested it in the past, albeit it's been a while now...

GC ID - VanderLegion, GMT-9. Sandbox GC ID (Beta) - VanderLegion
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09-24-2013, 01:04 AM
Post: #3
RE: Hitting multiple ships with different weapon classes
Easy +1 here, too.

Barring separate weapon fire, it would be great to choose "maximize damage" as an option. In this case, a starbase would look at every ship in range, and calculate total damage (including such things as shields, extra damage from nukes to structure, etc), add it up, and shoot at the one that maximizes damage.

This would be super-useful for gauss against shields (it would target maybe not the weakest, but the one with shields down), IPC...

Would this cause the computer to burst to run through all of the iterations? I can imagine a big fleet battle, with 50 ships against 50 ships, each one calculating 50 damage sequences, the damage being dealt, then choosing the next in the list... Ugh.

It might still make sense to target weakest (dead ships are better than maximizing damage sometimes), target closest (plasma, to keep away), target multiple (nukes; maximize structural damage, slow many ships down), target largest (to take out big ships first), etc.

Roc - is this even a possibility?
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09-24-2013, 11:53 PM
Post: #4
RE: Hitting multiple ships with different weapon classes
FYI, the OP suggestion has been implemented in the current beta. Please test / keep an eye out and let me know if it works.

re: "Target Most Damage" is an interesting idea, probably too complicated to implement this beta.
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09-25-2013, 01:43 PM
Post: #5
RE: Hitting multiple ships with different weapon classes
(09-24-2013 11:53 PM)rocco Wrote:  FYI, the OP suggestion has been implemented in the current beta. Please test / keep an eye out and let me know if it works.

re: "Target Most Damage" is an interesting idea, probably too complicated to implement this beta.

This does not seem to be working properly. I tested a Titan in hold position with gauss and plasma, target weakest. I attacked with an empty cruiser that charged close and a bunch of frigates that kept long range.

The Titan fired the plasma at the frigates, as expected. However, when the cruiser moved within range of the gauss, the gauss began firing at the frigates, not the cruiser. The gauss was hitting the same weakest frigate (which should have been out of range) instead of the nearby cruiser.
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09-25-2013, 02:44 PM
Post: #6
RE: Hitting multiple ships with different weapon classes
(09-25-2013 01:43 PM)Skins0815 Wrote:  
(09-24-2013 11:53 PM)rocco Wrote:  FYI, the OP suggestion has been implemented in the current beta. Please test / keep an eye out and let me know if it works.

re: "Target Most Damage" is an interesting idea, probably too complicated to implement this beta.

This does not seem to be working properly. I tested a Titan in hold position with gauss and plasma, target weakest. I attacked with an empty cruiser that charged close and a bunch of frigates that kept long range.

The Titan fired the plasma at the frigates, as expected. However, when the cruiser moved within range of the gauss, the gauss began firing at the frigates, not the cruiser. The gauss was hitting the same weakest frigate (which should have been out of range) instead of the nearby cruiser.

Now that would be a handy exploit. 1 plasma and the rest gauss for long range gauss!!!

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09-25-2013, 03:37 PM
Post: #7
RE: Hitting multiple ships with different weapon classes
(09-25-2013 01:43 PM)Skins0815 Wrote:  This does not seem to be working properly. I tested a Titan in hold position with gauss and plasma, target weakest. I attacked with an empty cruiser that charged close and a bunch of frigates that kept long range.

The Titan fired the plasma at the frigates, as expected. However, when the cruiser moved within range of the gauss, the gauss began firing at the frigates, not the cruiser. The gauss was hitting the same weakest frigate (which should have been out of range) instead of the nearby cruiser.

Can you submit the game as a bug report pls?
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10-03-2013, 12:38 AM
Post: #8
RE: Hitting multiple ships with different weapon classes
(09-25-2013 03:37 PM)rocco Wrote:  
(09-25-2013 01:43 PM)Skins0815 Wrote:  This does not seem to be working properly. I tested a Titan in hold position with gauss and plasma, target weakest. I attacked with an empty cruiser that charged close and a bunch of frigates that kept long range.

The Titan fired the plasma at the frigates, as expected. However, when the cruiser moved within range of the gauss, the gauss began firing at the frigates, not the cruiser. The gauss was hitting the same weakest frigate (which should have been out of range) instead of the nearby cruiser.

Can you submit the game as a bug report pls?

Rocco,

I'm still not sure whether this is working as intended. On a starbase with gauss and plasma set to target weakest, I noticed that the plasma was targeting weakest but that the gauss seemed to be firing randomly at any ship within range. It would seem you would want it to work such that the gauss should fire at the weakest ship within range of the gauss (or the smallest ship / largest ship if orders were set to target smallest / target largest). I'll send you the game file.

Regarding "target maximum damage," I love this idea but think it should be implemented per weapon, not per ship. In other words, the plasma would hit the ship that was farthest away with sheilds, while the gauss would hit the closest ship without sheilds.
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10-03-2013, 01:39 AM
Post: #9
RE: Hitting multiple ships with different weapon classes
(10-03-2013 12:38 AM)Skins0815 Wrote:  Regarding "target maximum damage," I love this idea but think it should be implemented per weapon, not per ship. In other words, the plasma would hit the ship that was farthest away with sheilds, while the gauss would hit the closest ship without sheilds.

And here is where the computational nightmares start. The maximum damage might be higher if the ship were to target a close ship with shields to knock them out, rather than having the gauss fire at a long-distance ship that didn't happen to have shields.

You might not want the plasma firing far away - it would maximize plasma damage, but most likely to shields on some far away ship, and shields heal quickly. If you have a ship with both plasma and gauss, a main reason for the plasma is likely to bring down shields so the gauss will be more effective. It isn't simple.

The goal is to maximize damage, however that might be considered. In an ideal (to a micro-manager) level, you could set nested commands for each ship (and for each weapon on each ship). But Roc doesn't want to be responsible for the increase in divorce rate that would naturally follow such a move. Keep it simple has worked great so far.
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10-06-2013, 04:19 AM
Post: #10
RE: Hitting multiple ships with different weapon classes
Yeah, currently it is implemented "shooting at any ship in range is better than not shooting at anything at all".

Due to the way the code is set up, it will be a large task getting it to be "shoot at a target in this one weapons range using my current targeting orders". So, for now I will simply make it always target weakest if it is taking these bonus shots.
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