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Nebula
09-25-2013, 02:24 PM
Post: #1
Nebula
Currently if you build a nebula at a system on the turn where combat is about to take place, the nebula will be present for the first round of combat. This came up in one of our current MP games, and the consensus was that the nebula should show up on the second combat turn (like a reinforcement), not the first turn. Ideally there would be some indication that the nebula is coming next turn, much like reinforcements show up in combat so you know they are coming next turn.
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09-27-2013, 02:02 AM
Post: #2
RE: Nebula
I kind of like having some items you could add to the mix at the last moment.

Why was this thought to be bad?

Nebula come late in the game (almost always) so a little extra defense at that point might make more games interesting...
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09-27-2013, 06:09 AM (This post was last modified: 09-27-2013 06:10 AM by VanderLegion.)
Post: #3
RE: Nebula
(09-27-2013 02:02 AM)bmike Wrote:  I kind of like having some items you could add to the mix at the last moment.

Why was this thought to be bad?

Nebula come late in the game (almost always) so a little extra defense at that point might make more games interesting...

It's thought to be bad for one thing because a Nebula is not a little extra defense. If you're up against an opponent with all gauss or IPC, so you put shields on all your ships to greatly reduce their damage output, having your shields become suddenly useless with no warning is huge.

And it's not just a matter of how big of a difference it makes to the combat. It's how the game works as well. Say it's round 412.3. The way things work:

412.3: Both (all) players give orders.
Between 412.3 and 412.4: Orders are carried out and resolved
412.4: Both (all) players see the results of last turns orders and give new ones.

So if you tell a ship to travel somewhere, it travels between turns. Combat happens between turns. Building something happens between turns. So if you give orders in combat on turn 412.3, the combat happens between rounds, you see the result on 412.4. If you buy a building on turn 412.3, it's built between rounds and completed to it takes effect on turn 412.4.

So in the above situation of buying a nebula the turn you give orders for combat, the nebula is being built while the combat is happening. It can't affect that round of combat cause it doesn't exist yet. It would come in during the next round (assuming the combat lasts more than 1 round) same as starbases.
This is part of why reinforcements and starbases were changed to work the way they do. Originally reinforcements would show up in combat immediately instead of being grayed out as reinforcements and participate the next round. Because it didn't work logically as they were still traveling on the turn the combat happened, so they couldn't fight at the same time. Ditto with starbases, they're still being built if they were purchased on the turn orders were given.

GC ID - VanderLegion, GMT-9. Sandbox GC ID (Beta) - VanderLegion
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09-27-2013, 11:24 AM (This post was last modified: 09-27-2013 11:25 AM by rocco.)
Post: #4
RE: Nebula
Under the case Skins out-lined, there is a fleet 1 turn away from your system.

If you quick build a Starbase, it is part of the new combat (not a reinforcement).

If you quick build any ship, it is part of the new combat (not a reinforcement).

In that scenario, I find it acceptable that a nebula generator acts the same way.



That being said, one could make the argument that a nebula generator, if built during a turn with an existing combat, might need to take one turn to take affect, thus bringing it in line with newly built starbases and ships.
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09-27-2013, 01:20 PM
Post: #5
RE: Nebula
(09-27-2013 11:24 AM)rocco Wrote:  Under the case Skins out-lined, there is a fleet 1 turn away from your system.

If you quick build a Starbase, it is part of the new combat (not a reinforcement).

If you quick build any ship, it is part of the new combat (not a reinforcement).

In that scenario, I find it acceptable that a nebula generator acts the same way.



That being said, one could make the argument that a nebula generator, if built during a turn with an existing combat, might need to take one turn to take affect, thus bringing it in line with newly built starbases and ships.

Sorry if I wasn't clear. My scenario was NOT saying the enemy fleet was one turn away from your system; I was saying the enemy fleet has arrived at your system and you now have to set your battle orders. In that case, if you rush build the nebula, it should behave like rush building a ship, so that it shows up in the second round of combat (but like a greyed-out reinforcement ship, in round 1 it gives some indication that it is about to show up in round 2). Based on your last sentence, it sounds like you are in agreement.

I also agree with the first part of your response. If you quick build a nebula when he enemy is one turn away from arriving at your system, it should immediately be part of the new combat. Just like quick building a ship or a starbase.


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09-27-2013, 04:17 PM
Post: #6
RE: Nebula
I had the advantage of being in the game where this issue came up, so I knew what Skins was talking about Smile

GC ID - VanderLegion, GMT-9. Sandbox GC ID (Beta) - VanderLegion
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