Post Reply 
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Timer and Missed Turn
10-18-2013, 04:06 AM
Post: #1
Timer and Missed Turn
Having a timer is great, it has really kept games alive that would otherwise have failed. But in any big game, there always seems to be that person or two that never does their turn, either from the beginning, somewhere in the middle, or when they start to lose.

My recommendation: instead of a skipped turn just processing your last turn's orders, have the AI take over for just that turn. No special AI bonuses, but any skipped turn gets processed as if the person was AI.

The person could always get back in the game, and quit properly if they really didn't want to continue (and AI would take over, with bonuses as appropriate). Or come back and continue to play, with maybe a chance at getting back into the game.

Only rarely does a person only skip a single turn throughout the entire game. People either seem to play, or miss many/most of their turns. I am sure it would be a bit annoying for those few people that only miss a single turn (e.g., the AI sends the fleet to the four winds), but a small price to pay, imho, for good game continuity.

Maybe disable diplomacy too, if that wouldn't be too hard?
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
10-18-2013, 05:31 AM
Post: #2
RE: Timer and Missed Turn
(10-18-2013 04:06 AM)Diebo Wrote:  Having a timer is great, it has really kept games alive that would otherwise have failed. But in any big game, there always seems to be that person or two that never does their turn, either from the beginning, somewhere in the middle, or when they start to lose.

My recommendation: instead of a skipped turn just processing your last turn's orders, have the AI take over for just that turn. No special AI bonuses, but any skipped turn gets processed as if the person was AI.

The person could always get back in the game, and quit properly if they really didn't want to continue (and AI would take over, with bonuses as appropriate). Or come back and continue to play, with maybe a chance at getting back into the game.

Only rarely does a person only skip a single turn throughout the entire game. People either seem to play, or miss many/most of their turns. I am sure it would be a bit annoying for those few people that only miss a single turn (e.g., the AI sends the fleet to the four winds), but a small price to pay, imho, for good game continuity.

Maybe disable diplomacy too, if that wouldn't be too hard?

Another option would be if a player misses X turns in a row they get dropped from the game and replaced by an AI same as if they'd quit normally.

GC ID - VanderLegion, GMT-9. Sandbox GC ID (Beta) - VanderLegion
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
10-18-2013, 05:41 AM
Post: #3
RE: Timer and Missed Turn
VL: that would work too. Either way.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
10-18-2013, 06:48 AM
Post: #4
RE: Timer and Missed Turn
I can't imagine that someone would want the AI to take over for one turn. Come back and find your fleet on a kamikaze mission into enemy territory.

I could see the "miss X turns you go away" working.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
10-18-2013, 08:51 AM
Post: #5
RE: Timer and Missed Turn
(10-18-2013 06:48 AM)rocco Wrote:  I can't imagine that someone would want the AI to take over for one turn. Come back and find your fleet on a kamikaze mission into enemy territory.

Yah, I could see an AI takeover for a turn having serious consequences. I like the miss x turns in a row and be dropped better. Occasionally someone will miss a turn or two due to being too busy (I've missed a couple in various games over the last few days), but if it's simply due to being busy they typically pick it back up and get back to normal after a turn or two missed and go on with things. Missing out on those couple turns rarely has much in the way of long term consequences, unless they're in the middle of attacking or being attacked.

On the other hand, it's the people who miss a number of turns in a row that generally either don't come back, or if they do will be so far behind as to be severely handicapped. It might be worth having different numbers of turns missed to be dropped for casual and tournament timers. In a casual game, maybe you only need to miss 3-5 turns to be dropped, since you have 24 hours to get back in to take a turn to prevent it happening.

In a tourney timer game, on the other hand, missed turns could go much faster. In a 2v2 game, you could easily miss 5 turns in half an hour if your opponent wanted to try to get you dropped for a free win. Maybe for a tourney timer it should be if you've missed at least X turns and a minimum of 24 hours has passed since the first one you missed. This gives your opponent the option of giving you extra time by not taking turns, or taking the win if they're low on time as well or want to get the game over with, but still leaves you time to get back to the game if there's a good reason you can't play immediately. I'm fine with tourney having a shorter timeout to lose since the point of tourney timer is for games to go faster, but you still at least need enough time to hvae the chance to get back.

GC ID - VanderLegion, GMT-9. Sandbox GC ID (Beta) - VanderLegion
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
10-18-2013, 11:55 PM
Post: #6
RE: Timer and Missed Turn
(10-18-2013 08:51 AM)VanderLegion Wrote:  Yah, I could see an AI takeover for a turn having serious consequences. I like the miss x turns in a row and be dropped better. Occasionally someone will miss a turn or two due to being too busy (I've missed a couple in various games over the last few days), but if it's simply due to being busy they typically pick it back up and get back to normal after a turn or two missed and go on with things. Missing out on those couple turns rarely has much in the way of long term consequences, unless they're in the middle of attacking or being attacked.

On the other hand, it's the people who miss a number of turns in a row that generally either don't come back, or if they do will be so far behind as to be severely handicapped. It might be worth having different numbers of turns missed to be dropped for casual and tournament timers. In a casual game, maybe you only need to miss 3-5 turns to be dropped, since you have 24 hours to get back in to take a turn to prevent it happening.

In a tourney timer game, on the other hand, missed turns could go much faster. In a 2v2 game, you could easily miss 5 turns in half an hour if your opponent wanted to try to get you dropped for a free win. Maybe for a tourney timer it should be if you've missed at least X turns and a minimum of 24 hours has passed since the first one you missed. This gives your opponent the option of giving you extra time by not taking turns, or taking the win if they're low on time as well or want to get the game over with, but still leaves you time to get back to the game if there's a good reason you can't play immediately. I'm fine with tourney having a shorter timeout to lose since the point of tourney timer is for games to go faster, but you still at least need enough time to hvae the chance to get back.

My initial thought was to get human players back in the game, so having the AI run their turns would normally result in better-than-nothing performance, except in the case of someone missing just 1-2 turns total. But I can totally see how it would be easier to code to just have taken over by AI. Hopefully, people will choose solid AI choices (impossible with bonus on) at game startup.

I'd guess five turns skipped sounds good for AI take-over. A coup, if you will. For both casual (five days) and tourney timer. If you skip five turns in tourney timer, you are probably either (1) really not playing anymore, or (2) playing with people that would rather you just turn into an AI so they can get on with their fast-paced play.

Plus, five-and-coup is easy to explain to everyone - just one rule to apply to both timers.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
10-19-2013, 03:01 AM
Post: #7
RE: Timer and Missed Turn
(10-18-2013 11:55 PM)Diebo Wrote:  If you skip five turns in tourney timer, you are probably either (1) really not playing anymore, or (2) playing with people that would rather you just turn into an AI so they can get on with their fast-paced play.

Plus, five-and-coup is easy to explain to everyone - just one rule to apply to both timers.

That's not necessarily true. As I said, you could easily miss 5 turns in a half hour if the other players are consistantly taking your turns. At least one of our beta games I ran out of time on the tourney timer and have never managed to get time stored back up. Every time I save some up, I then go to bed and my turn hits and I lose it all. It's on out of time every time i go to take a turn pretty much, though fortunately I haven't been missing turns since there's generally other people that need to take theirs still. In a game with less players, I could easily have missed 5 turns in a row despite playing every day, multiple times per day depending on when turns come in. Going from missing your first turn to losing within possibly less than half an hour, or even an hour or two, seems a bit too harsh.

GC ID - VanderLegion, GMT-9. Sandbox GC ID (Beta) - VanderLegion
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
10-19-2013, 03:46 AM
Post: #8
RE: Timer and Missed Turn
(10-19-2013 03:01 AM)VanderLegion Wrote:  
(10-18-2013 11:55 PM)Diebo Wrote:  If you skip five turns in tourney timer, you are probably either (1) really not playing anymore, or (2) playing with people that would rather you just turn into an AI so they can get on with their fast-paced play.

Plus, five-and-coup is easy to explain to everyone - just one rule to apply to both timers.

That's not necessarily true. As I said, you could easily miss 5 turns in a half hour if the other players are consistantly taking your turns. At least one of our beta games I ran out of time on the tourney timer and have never managed to get time stored back up. Every time I save some up, I then go to bed and my turn hits and I lose it all. It's on out of time every time i go to take a turn pretty much, though fortunately I haven't been missing turns since there's generally other people that need to take theirs still. In a game with less players, I could easily have missed 5 turns in a row despite playing every day, multiple times per day depending on when turns come in. Going from missing your first turn to losing within possibly less than half an hour, or even an hour or two, seems a bit too harsh.

Weird - maybe this is a problem with how tourney timer works. I would think that if you miss a turn, you get the time built back up. On a 24-hour timer, you get another 24 hours. On a 4-hour timer, you should get 4 hours. So with five time-outs, you should get at least 16 if not 20 hours to take that next turn, which is entirely reasonable.

Roc - I am guessing from what VL says that once the tourney timer is up, you only get 5 minutes added, not the full 4 hours? I think this, combined with the above 5-and-coup change, would fix the problem.

Sum:

Casual Timer:
1. You miss a turn. You get a new 24-hour clock (I think this is how it works).
2. You miss 5 turns in a row. You get replaced by AI. Your clock restarts to zero for turns missed if you take a turn.

Tourney Timer:
1. You miss a turn. You get four more hours. (I think right now you only get 5 minutes).
2. You miss 5 turns in a row. You get replaced by AI. Your clock restarts to zero for turns missed if you take a turn.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
10-19-2013, 04:16 AM
Post: #9
RE: Timer and Missed Turn
The way the tourney timer works, is that each time you take your turn you have the potential of adding up to four hours to your clock. The amount you gain is a sliding window based upon how quickly you play. If you take your turn right away, you gain four hours. If you take your turn two hours after you got the notification, you only gain two hours. If you take your turn over four hours after, you don't gain any time.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
10-19-2013, 04:28 AM (This post was last modified: 10-19-2013 04:30 AM by VanderLegion.)
Post: #10
RE: Timer and Missed Turn
(10-19-2013 03:46 AM)Diebo Wrote:  Weird - maybe this is a problem with how tourney timer works. I would think that if you miss a turn, you get the time built back up. On a 24-hour timer, you get another 24 hours. On a 4-hour timer, you should get 4 hours. So with five time-outs, you should get at least 16 if not 20 hours to take that next turn, which is entirely reasonable.

Roc - I am guessing from what VL says that once the tourney timer is up, you only get 5 minutes added, not the full 4 hours? I think this, combined with the above 5-and-coup change, would fix the problem.

The tourney timer was designed so that if you run out of time you don't put the game on hold if you aren't playing, which is why it only adds 5 minutes. Basically, it gives you just enough time to load up the game when a notification arrives and take a turn to get some time back and avoid missing another one. Originally it didn't give you any time back, that was changed so you'd actually at least have the opportunity to take a turn.

I'm fine with the 5 minute timer working the way it does, I just think it's too harsh to drop a player after only a few turns if it's moving quickly. There's no reason the 5 minute timer cna't stay and just have a time AND turns missed based dropout for tourney games. That way a player won't hold up the game if they are unable to take turns for a short time one day due to some fluke after running out of time, but they'd still get the punishment of missed turns.
You could also make an argument for not having a dropout at all in a tourney game, or perhaps not replacing with an AI in the case that someone is dropped or quits. After all, typically in a tournament you're playing to see who's the best player, not playing against/with AI, though I suppose in team games having a player quit could be a significant penalty for their team...

GC ID - VanderLegion, GMT-9. Sandbox GC ID (Beta) - VanderLegion
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 


Forum Jump:


User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)

Contact Us | Starbase Orion | Return to Top | Return to Content | Lite (Archive) Mode | RSS Syndication