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Ladder?
01-25-2014, 02:26 AM
Post: #1
Ladder?
Is there or has there ever been a ladder organized? It shouldn't require more than a simple sticky post with... The Ladder itself...?
If there isn't one, shouldn't there be? =)
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02-05-2014, 02:59 AM
Post: #2
RE: Ladder?
I'll take the lack of protests as a resounding "YES we need a ladder!" =)

It would be a more flexible and casual format than Siramnes excellent tournament! But victories would still count for more than just practice =) And after some time, it could be a good way of finding opponents matched to your skill. Perhaps Rocco is already working on displaying win/loss ratio in the player profile, but that would still lack the formal organization and standardization of "games that count"... So I thought I'd at least give some thought to how such a ladder could work... Taking the most simple and standard ladder system, it would be something like this:

1. Upon entering the ladder for the first time, a new player is added to the bottom of the ladder.
2. Any player may issue a challenge to any player up to five positions above him/her, that is currently not playing another lower ranked player.
3. If the lower player wins, or the challenge is not accepted within 1 week, the players switch places on the ladder.
4. A player must finish playing the game after issuing a challenge, before issuing a new one.
5. If the lower ranked player looses, the same player may not be challenged again until one of the other four players have been challenged.

This would mean that each player will never have more than two active games at the time, and by being active, you would probably have at least one. This keeps the higher ranked players from being swamped. Of course, it could be possible to have PENDING challenges, a sort of queue of waiting contenders, but they may become irrelevant by previous results.
With some frequent updating, we could keep track of who is playing who, and who is available to be challenged, as well as number of wins and losses on the ladder.

Game settings: Tourney timer would be useful, since players are locked up as long as a game is going on. Casual timer on the other hand, would allow more people to take part, perhaps?
Tourney leaders
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Other settings could be left to the challenger, but maybe a ban on massive cluster galaxies, they take forever =)
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02-05-2014, 08:09 AM
Post: #3
RE: Ladder?
Seconded

1.09 Tournament Champion (February, 2012)
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02-05-2014, 11:34 AM (This post was last modified: 02-05-2014 11:34 AM by anthee.)
Post: #4
RE: Ladder?
Check out this thread for why this hasn't been done yet and probably will not be done in the near future.

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02-06-2014, 12:57 AM (This post was last modified: 02-06-2014 01:14 AM by Emperor Matteus I.)
Post: #5
RE: Ladder?
(02-05-2014 11:34 AM)anthee Wrote:  Check out this thread for why this hasn't been done yet and probably will not be done in the near future.

Yes, that's a built in ranking system that, like I mentioned above: "would still lack the formal organization and standardization of "games that count"..." For example, a simple numerical win/loss ratio in game would mean exactly nothing, without knowing the circumstances under which it was created.
But that's exactly where an organized ladder would come in, supplying an overseen framework. Players are sorted not by numerical abstractions like ratios or number of wins, but by the actual results of actual games played. Win-trading COULD happen, of course, but it would be meaningless in the long run. A good player "lifting up" a bad player could also happen, even though it sounds implausible =) but the relative positioning on the ladder is self-correcting.

Seems to me a ladder kind of SOLVES the problem Rocco mentioned there, not shares them...?
Maybe I need to clarify, this is not a request for an integrated ladder system in the client, that would have been posted elsewhere =) This would be little more than a forum post with a list of names, sorted by game results.
To reiterate the purpose: "It would be a more flexible and casual format than Siramnes excellent tournament! But victories would still count for more than just practice =) And after some time, it could be a good way of finding opponents matched to your skill."
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02-06-2014, 08:57 AM
Post: #6
RE: Ladder?
If there are enough interested players and people dedicated to overseeing the framework, then I don't see why not. The tournaments we have now and the Orion League also sprung up from the enthusiasm and dedication of one player, Siramnes, and so far all of it has been entirely player-driven.

This seems so similar to the Orion League, though, that time might become an issue. I don't think many players would have enough time to play both the league and the ladder without holding up one or the other.

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02-06-2014, 11:53 PM
Post: #7
RE: Ladder?
The beauty with a ladder in that regard, is that there are no schedules or activity requirements, each player decides his own level of engagement, and it affects noone else. One player can be active and issue challenges every chance he gets, while another declines every challenge. So you can play 1 or max 2 games at the time in order to climb, and you can stop playing entirely for a while, but you will likely drop in rank. Not even once you accept or initiate a game is there a forcing requirement, since as long as there is a tourney timer, the game will end relatively swiftly with or without your participation. Good form would be to surrender in that case though =)
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03-01-2014, 09:55 AM
Post: #8
RE: Ladder?
I love ladders, the civ3 ladder was a lot of fun! I'd help organize a ladder any day!
They're pretty self running except for disputes or adjusting non-reported matches...
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03-04-2014, 11:31 AM
Post: #9
RE: Ladder?
The ladder system could be something as simple as when someone wins they get 3 points, and when they lose they get 0(in rare, but I guess possible, draws both teams get 1 point). Similar to how the European soccer leagues play. Everyone in the soccer league plays each other once, whoever has the most points at the end wins. Simple as that. If two people are tied at the end of the ladder whoever won the match between the two during the season takes the prize. There coul be a special "Cup" game between the winner of the the Orion league and the ladder also.

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03-04-2014, 03:57 PM
Post: #10
RE: Ladder?
(03-04-2014 11:31 AM)MiiiikeT Wrote:  The ladder system could be something as simple as when someone wins they get 3 points, and when they lose they get 0(in rare, but I guess possible, draws both teams get 1 point). Similar to how the European soccer leagues play. Everyone in the soccer league plays each other once, whoever has the most points at the end wins. Simple as that. If two people are tied at the end of the ladder whoever won the match between the two during the season takes the prize. There coul be a special "Cup" game between the winner of the the Orion league and the ladder also.

This sounds moer like a league than a ladder. A ladder is generally when you're getting/losing points depending on the game outcome, and you get matched against other players of equal skill (roughly the same ELO).

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