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Orion League, Season 2 rules
02-18-2014, 05:05 AM
Post: #31
RE: Orion League, Season 2 rules
I don't believe same monsters is true. I don't think they are always as the same system either. I recall newrussian complaining in a tourney game that he lost because enemy did not have monsters at the wormhole, and he did, meaning, the enemy expanded faster to the center. So, that's a rather huge piece of luck as well. So, wjhy pick on random when there are serious issues with other settings as well? I was not suggesting ADDING random to other settings necessarily.

The bonus received from specials can be quite a difference maker as well. I might get up to laser 3, you might get something lesser.

Anyway, I enjoy the random games the most. It also causes you to adapt to the universe. Just as the other settings do. But apparently, that's just me!

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02-18-2014, 05:10 AM
Post: #32
RE: Orion League, Season 2 rules
(02-18-2014 05:05 AM)sfatula Wrote:  I don't believe same monsters is true. I don't think they are always as the same system either. I recall newrussian complaining in a tourney game that he lost because enemy did not have monsters at the wormhole, and he did, meaning, the enemy expanded faster to the center.

Doesn't apply when you're talking about the center. I'm assuming he had a monster in the center of the map at the wormhole's destination (wormholes always go from the outside to the center). Since the center is random, you won't have the same monsters. This would also be part of why I don't like wormholes, especially for something like a tournamentt/league. They ARE always at the same systems in the outside mirrored parts, though I can't guarantee 100% that they're the same monsters. Just seems to be what I recall from the past (could also have changed if it used to be).

Quote:Anyway, I enjoy the random games the most. It also causes you to adapt to the universe. Just as the other settings do. But apparently, that's just me!

I'm not entirely opposed to random in normal games, but in a tournament/league situation it's a bad idea. Sure, it causes you to adapt to the universe but you can only adapt so much. you should never win or lose in a tournament game simply because of the galaxy makeup in your respecitve parts of the galaxy

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02-18-2014, 07:10 AM
Post: #33
RE: Orion League, Season 2 rules
Then, I would maintain you should never win or lose in a tournament game due to bad luck on specials. To me, its the same thing. I've done that before, I had a guy who would always seem to get good weapons every time on specials, and, being a fast blitzer, always would win with those weapons which I could not compete against. It was luck, no doubt about it. Without specials, I would always win. I am sure sometime he didn't get the best stuff, just seemed that way more often than not.

In a larger universe, the luck of random shouldn't be as bad.Of course, the same would apply to specials in theory.

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02-18-2014, 08:20 AM
Post: #34
RE: Orion League, Season 2 rules
(02-18-2014 07:10 AM)sfatula Wrote:  Then, I would maintain you should never win or lose in a tournament game due to bad luck on specials. To me, its the same thing. I've done that before, I had a guy who would always seem to get good weapons every time on specials, and, being a fast blitzer, always would win with those weapons which I could not compete against. It was luck, no doubt about it. Without specials, I would always win. I am sure sometime he didn't get the best stuff, just seemed that way more often than not.

In a larger universe, the luck of random shouldn't be as bad.Of course, the same would apply to specials in theory.

I'm not arguing in favor of specials. I actually agree that specials shouldn't be used in a tournament setting. Just that i don't htink specials are as big a deal as random galaxy. Sure you CAN get laser 3, but it requires first either researching laser 2 or getting that as a bonus as well. Happens, but not all THAT often from what i've seen. And on the larger maps at least, its not a guaranteed win even if you do get it.

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02-18-2014, 11:30 PM
Post: #35
RE: Orion League, Season 2 rules
So, any more opinions on galaxy shape and ring versus spiral? We're about to have a ton of league games start with spiral....
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02-19-2014, 01:01 AM
Post: #36
RE: Orion League, Season 2 rules
Rules for season 2 have already been finalized, but we can discuss what we want for season 3. The second half of season 2 will be with a cluster galaxy

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02-19-2014, 01:24 AM
Post: #37
RE: Orion League, Season 2 rules
It might be a fun twist to do one part of a future season with medium cluster galaxy. It is a true blitz variant but it's actually pretty interesting (to me at least) as there are a lot of immediate checks and counter-checks. Had some very interesting games with New Russian on those settings a while back.
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02-19-2014, 02:14 AM (This post was last modified: 02-19-2014 02:18 AM by Skins0815.)
Post: #38
RE: Orion League, Season 2 rules
I would be in favor of replacing the massive spiral galaxy with a large or huge ring galaxy. If we did this, I would make the ring galaxy the one with specials and the cluster galaxy the one with no specials. If season 2 has already been finalized, I'd do this for season 3.

Here's my thinking:

Regarding specials, the biggest advantage of the ring galaxy is that there is no "unbalanced center" of the map. You are guaranteed that both halves of the map have exactly the same placement of specials, monsters, etc. So, in a tournament with specials (which reward exploration but can introduce some randomness), the ring is the most fair and balanced map to use them.

A disadvantage of spiral galaxies is that occasionally a player without fuel cells 1 can get stuck, even with galactic navigators, since there are so few planets on each of the spirals. This can create a huge disadvantage for a slow thinkers race. Not a problem with ring galaxies, as they are “thicker” with more nearby planets to use for expansion.

In terms of galaxy size, I actually think the descriptions when selecting size are correct for small or medium galaxies but wrong for the large, huge, and massive sizes. As far as I can tell, those # of planets for the larger maps are for RING galaxies (e.g., a large ring galaxy has 60 star systems, a large cluster has more like 80). So, a huge ring will have about the same # of planets as a large cluster. I think a massive spiral has around 65 or so, but obviously takes longer to get from one side to the other.

There’s also the advantage of mixing things up. First season had spiral and cluster, introducing ring in season two gives players a chance to try something less common.
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02-19-2014, 03:54 AM (This post was last modified: 02-19-2014 03:56 AM by VanderLegion.)
Post: #39
RE: Orion League, Season 2 rules
(02-19-2014 02:14 AM)Skins0815 Wrote:  I would be in favor of replacing the massive spiral galaxy with a large or huge ring galaxy. If we did this, I would make the ring galaxy the one with specials and the cluster galaxy the one with no specials. If season 2 has already been finalized, I'd do this for season 3.

Here's my thinking:

Regarding specials, the biggest advantage of the ring galaxy is that there is no "unbalanced center" of the map. You are guaranteed that both halves of the map have exactly the same placement of specials, monsters, etc. So, in a tournament with specials (which reward exploration but can introduce some randomness), the ring is the most fair and balanced map to use them.

Good thinking. Works for me.

Quote:A disadvantage of spiral galaxies is that occasionally a player without fuel cells 1 can get stuck, even with galactic navigators, since there are so few planets on each of the spirals. This can create a huge disadvantage for a slow thinkers race. Not a problem with ring galaxies, as they are “thicker” with more nearby planets to use for expansion.

Another possibility for spiral is to do advanced empire so you get the fuel cells starting out, evens it out a bit for the slow thinkers/non-navigators races (I think all the games have been normal empire age so far? Could be interesting to throw in some early/advanced for half a season sometime)

Quote:In terms of galaxy size, I actually think the descriptions when selecting size are correct for small or medium galaxies but wrong for the large, huge, and massive sizes. As far as I can tell, those # of planets for the larger maps are for RING galaxies (e.g., a large ring galaxy has 60 star systems, a large cluster has more like 80). So, a huge ring will have about the same # of planets as a large cluster. I think a massive spiral has around 65 or so, but obviously takes longer to get from one side to the other.

The numbers are supposed to be for cluster, but that could have changed at some point. The galaxies are also randomly generated, so they don't have the exact same number of stars every time, the numbers given are just estimates (the two I looked at had 54 in the ring and 69 in the cluster, which is indeed a good bit higher than the estimate).

Quote:There’s also the advantage of mixing things up. First season had spiral and cluster, introducing ring in season two gives players a chance to try something less common.

Agree again. I mentioned empire age above, wouldn't hurt to play some games with different galaxy age as well.

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02-19-2014, 04:05 AM
Post: #40
RE: Orion League, Season 2 rules
Ring is definitely the "fairest". Don't think it's the funnest though. I just have a distaste for knowing what planets are where on the enemy side even before I find them! I wish there was a way around that, other than random.

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