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Disabled Ships
05-28-2014, 01:53 AM
Post: #1
Disabled Ships
So many of us have noticed that when a ship becomes disabled during the firing phase, it will still execute it's movement orders during the movement phase. It looks to me like everything else that takes place during the firing phase is resolved at the end of the firing phase and before the movement phase, i.e. possession chances from captures, and ships sinking, etc.

I propose that when a ship becomes disabled during the firing phase, it interrupts the movement orders so that during the movement phase, no movement will take place for that ship. This is more consistent with the rest of the rules and is also more intuitive.
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05-28-2014, 02:27 AM
Post: #2
RE: Disabled Ships
Obviously I like it better the way it is, but I imagine the reasoning is not very clear. I will endeavor to shed light on aspects of this topic.

1) I prefer a game where the player's orders given in the last turn are carried out fully UNLESS a drastic event occurs. These events are currently limited to three areas; Captain Cards, the destruction of a ship, and the boarding and capture of a ship. Certain captain cards can cause you not to move, or move in a different direction, but they are limited in how they can be applied. The destruction of a ship only cuts off the ships movement, and can be somewhat easily predicted (it is the exception to "one shot" a ship). Capturing a ship is also quite hard to pull off (you need to drop sails first, then drop crew, possibly have multiple ships capture at once). The point is, currently the things which can interrupt a player's given movement order are few, and all are quite difficult to pull off in a single turn.

2) If we went with "a ships sail damage takes effect immediately after the firing phase", there are a lot of player-viewed complications with that. Let's say a ship is not completely disabled during firing, but instead has enough sail damaged to incur a movement penalty. Should the ship be able to move its full movement orders, or just a partial amount? If the answer is just move it a partial amount, imagine the devastation that you can inflict on a moving battle-line just by inflicting a few hundred points of damage on the lead ship? Lots of devastation, easy to pull off and little investment needed.

3) It is much easier to spike down a ship's sails in one turn than it is to go through armor and hull in one turn (less sail points, can be hit on all sides), thus even if you made it "if sails are dropped to less than 20% they lose their movement orders" it is again a rather easy to cause devastating event. And, quite frankly, having all of your sails gone on the next turn is likely devastating enough.
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05-28-2014, 03:05 AM
Post: #3
RE: Disabled Ships
Nice points there Rocco.

Logically, I think the "you shoot the sails out, the ship can't move" camp has a pretty solid point. It doesn't make intuitive or logical sense.

But logically, if one of your ships has its sails taken out, you're going to move around it and not just ram it.

The problem, then, really just relates to the artificial division of time that is inherent in the game.

One solution that would satisfy the logical camp would be to have a movement turn, and a combat turn. Turn 1a) You move. Your opponent moves. Turn 1b) You attack. Your opponent attacks.

Of course, that would double the time that a game takes.

So I think the current system is a compromise between turn duration and a bit of realism. To be even more realistic, we should be able to break the movement up into a turn for each max move. Let's say the fastest ship could move 8 spaces in a turn. On turn 1a, they would get to move 1 space. On turn 1.b, they would get to move 1 space. On turn 1c, they could move, and a bigger ship could move. Ugh! That would take too long.

I'm Ok with the current system, knowing that it is a compromise. Anyone have a better solution?
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05-28-2014, 09:26 AM
Post: #4
RE: Disabled Ships
Logical would be to have each ship move a percentage of it's total movement incrementally. Light ships start moving first, large ships unless they are carrying momentum, would only start to move after the light ones are substantially under way.

Taking an analog movement and making it digital isn't very realistic, but for a game where people can understand and predict how their commands make sense, the current model is actually quite excellent (IMO).

I do like the points roc makes, all ships get to move unless there are extenuating circumstances, and the current model glosses over details that would take a ton of programming to get right and might not even make a more satisfying game once we got to try it. It certainly would severely complicate how orders are entered.
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05-29-2014, 06:42 AM
Post: #5
RE: Disabled Ships
Thanks for laying that out Rocco. I still think that, intuitively, disabling a ship should interrupt it's movement. However in light of the full picture, anything other than how it is now becomes insanely complex and at least how it stands it is predictable. I agree that how it is currently is probably the best solution.
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06-08-2014, 09:56 PM (This post was last modified: 06-08-2014 09:59 PM by sirius.)
Post: #6
RE: Disabled Ships
Just think of it as an abstraction. The ships move and fire the entire turn; by the end of the turn they may be immobilized or destroyed.
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06-17-2014, 12:55 PM
Post: #7
RE: Disabled Ships
(06-08-2014 09:56 PM)sirius Wrote:  Just think of it as an abstraction. The ships move and fire the entire turn; by the end of the turn they may be immobilized or destroyed.

true
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08-07-2019, 12:14 PM
Post: #8
Disabled Ships
Isnt every pope either called Francis or John Paul? Also, why did the car need blessing and not the disabled woman? Im confused.
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