Post Reply 
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Ship Maintenance Cost
08-06-2014, 12:41 AM (This post was last modified: 08-07-2014 03:17 AM by Diebo.)
Post: #11
RE: Ship Maintenance Cost
(08-05-2014 11:58 PM)Davabled Wrote:  Other than as an interesting thought experiment, I'm just not sure ship maintenance costs would actually add anything to the game.

We would see alterations in builds and/or strategies, although not necessarily.

Fair enough, it wouldn't probably affect most players. And that is a good thing, I think.

In thinking about it, I think it would do 2 things:

1. Be more realistic, not that this is an over-riding concern. It just makes sense that ships/crew should have a maintenance cost. Everything else does.

2. And just like everything else has a maintenance cost, elite players manipulate this fact to make choices that, over the long term, result in significant differences. For example, most great players will scrap their marine barracks on planets with less than 12 pop after 1 marine is built, and if they have barracks 2, will stop after the marines have built up whatever is closest to a 6, 11, 16, 21, 26, or 31 troops (unless they need a planet to produce troop ships). With a cost 2 GC/Turn, if you scrap a barrack on turn 1, by turn 50 you'll have 100 credits more than an opponent that kept theirs. 100 credits puts you that much closer to winning a leader, or not diverting resources from research/industry for funding. Do this for 10 planets, and you have 1000 credits.

One of the differences that separates the elite from the average is this careful attention to detail.

If ships had a real cost, then ship fleet configuration and size, as well as troop ship level, would need to be considered in more detail. There would be more hoarding, but that is also risky, as a big (even empty) fleet can serve as a deterrent or force an opponent to divert their resources into military and fleet building early than they would have wanted. But no fleet at all is an invitation to attack. And if each frigate cost between 1-3 credits, it would start to add up.

As a result, some people might consider taking money lender or the other money trait, diverting points that could have been spent on another trait. Or pick up trade port at the expense of fuel cells or medical. Strategies would in fact change for elite players. Whether or not this strategic change would "add anything to the game" would have to be seen (in beta testing). Not all change is positive.

But overall, I would agree that the average player wouldn't probably notice the difference.

Which makes me think that perhaps I am being selfish, as my geeky knowledge of the game and micromanaging tendencies would benefit. But for whatever it's worth, my intention originally was just to correct the "ships should have a cost" discrepancy rather than my "Diebo wants more things to micromanage" affliction.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
08-06-2014, 02:14 AM
Post: #12
RE: Ship Maintenance Cost
+1 applies to sb, gate, neb gen too. Of course they need to be scrapable first.
Newer players will be forced to learn about balanceing their economy more so than before.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
08-06-2014, 02:43 AM (This post was last modified: 08-06-2014 02:46 AM by Davabled.)
Post: #13
RE: Ship Maintenance Cost
(08-06-2014 12:41 AM)Diebo Wrote:  ...
Which makes me think that perhaps I am being selfish, as my geeky knowledge of the game and micromanaging tendencies would benefit. But for whatever it's worth, my intention originally was just to correct the "ships should have a cost" discrepancy rather than my "Diebo wants more things to micromanage" affliction.
No problem Diebo, I for the most part agree with you and enjoy micro-managing as well. Just thought I would jump in and play "devil's advocate".



(08-06-2014 02:14 AM)sfx51 Wrote:  +1 applies to sb, gate, neb gen too. Of course they need to be scrapable first.
Newer players will be forced to learn about balanceing their economy more so than before.
Agreed regarding scrapping.
Hope I'm not sending this off-topic, but that makes me consider another discrepancy: You can scrap ships for your choice of either industry or credits. Colony structures, however, can't be scrapped for industry, which I always felt odd.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
08-06-2014, 03:04 AM
Post: #14
RE: Ship Maintenance Cost
(08-06-2014 02:14 AM)sfx51 Wrote:  +1 applies to sb, gate, neb gen too. Of course they need to be scrapable first.
Newer players will be forced to learn about balanceing their economy more so than before.

SB, gate, and neb gen all have maintenance costs already:
SB1/2/3 costs 2/4/6 GC/turn
WG1/2 costs 3 GC/turn either way
Neb gen costs 5 GC/turn

Would be nice to be able to scrap them.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
08-06-2014, 04:49 AM
Post: #15
RE: Ship Maintenance Cost
What I really want are better tools for managing build queues. With just four slots for Custom Build Focus, there are not enough to cover all situations. For example, if I have Marine Barracks on my foci, then my planets will just try to re-build them if I scrap them. I know I can remove them from the foci, or change the planet to Economic Hoarding, but I shouldn't have to.

Some things that would help:

1) Ability to change Custom Build Focus within the game, preferably only effecting that game, but also still having the ability to change the global default behavior.

2) Ability to specify which buildings to scrap and under what circumstances, which would be especially useful when conquoring planets.

3) More fine grained control over build queue prioritization, preferably with the ability to program arbitrary logic with the ability to branch on planet size/minerals/climate/etc.

4) The ability to add tags to planets, like "border world" that feed back into the logic. In fact, the existing four foci could just be tags.

Honestly, it makes sense for ships to have a maintenance cost, but ramping up the necessity for micro-management would have the danger of making the late game unplayable on older devices. I'm still using an iPad 1, and switching between planets and queues gets painfully slow once you have more than 20 or 30 planets. I rely on Custom Build Focus to make the game playable at that stage.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
08-06-2014, 08:14 AM
Post: #16
RE: Ship Maintenance Cost
(08-06-2014 02:43 AM)Davabled Wrote:  Hope I'm not sending this off-topic, but that makes me consider another discrepancy: You can scrap ships for your choice of either industry or credits. Colony structures, however, can't be scrapped for industry, which I always felt odd.

The reasoning behind that is because scrapping ships was originally intended to let use the industry to build new ships, thus "upgrading" your ships. Not saying that you can't or shouldn't be able to srap ships for other purposes, it's just not the original intention, thus the reason youc an't scrap structures for industry.

GC ID - VanderLegion, GMT-9. Sandbox GC ID (Beta) - VanderLegion
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
08-06-2014, 10:30 AM
Post: #17
RE: Ship Maintenance Cost
I like the idea too, and as usual Diebo you are adept and eloquent when articulating your idea. If this change were to be implemented, what about also implementing the ability to gift ships?
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
08-10-2014, 04:54 PM
Post: #18
RE: Ship Maintenance Cost
(08-05-2014 11:58 PM)Davabled Wrote:  Other than as an interesting thought experiment, I'm just not sure ship maintenance costs would actually add anything to the game.

We would see alterations in builds and/or strategies, although not necessarily.

When is a new feature or game mechanic nessecary? I like the idea. It would make Galctic Credits more of a needed resource like research and production. Maybe for SO 2? I heard its in the works! Smile

"We're not retreating, we're simply advancing in another direction!" - Oliver P. Smith

Game Center: Troy tbUSA
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
09-21-2014, 07:23 AM
Post: #19
RE: Ship Maintenance Cost
+1

I do feel like this is a decent idea. I think it would have a slight balancing effect. When you're behind in an empire race, either for production or empire size, the other guy can afford to build larger ships, either because he can build them faster or he has so many production sites he can build smaller ships at some of them while the other sites work on larger ships.

This puts you in a downward spiral: Your empire is behind, so you can't afford to build larger ships, because they'll virtually never get done, so your little ships die more quickly, while his larger ships survive, and he over runs your empire, so your empire only gets worse and further behind.

With all the advantages he has, the least he can do is pay a bit more in maintenance for those larger ships. With you paying less in maintenance, maybe you can use that smidgen of extra gold to gain some extra ground.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 


Forum Jump:


User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)

Contact Us | Starbase Orion | Return to Top | Return to Content | Lite (Archive) Mode | RSS Syndication