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This game struggles like so many others
02-09-2015, 10:20 PM
Post: #1
This game struggles like so many others
1st time poster but after playing about 50 games i have come to the conclusion that despite the vast amount of options and tech this game has it is ruined by the rush tactics.

build hundreds of scout ships with troop ships and rush the map. which is fine if you like that sort of thing but this game deserves much more then that. (It reminds me of the original age of empires 2 online! Build hundreds of knights and charge)

I would love this to be a game were spies actually is a realistic way of winning. Or high morale planets make a significant difference, but it just feels like the same stuff needs to be researched first and fast.

Possibly doesn't help that i lose all the time so maybe i would feel differently if i was actually good at the game lol

so put me straight people am i missing something
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02-10-2015, 01:37 AM
Post: #2
RE: This game struggles like so many others
(02-09-2015 10:20 PM)jabba z hutt Wrote:  1st time poster but after playing about 50 games i have come to the conclusion that despite the vast amount of options and tech this game has it is ruined by the rush tactics.

build hundreds of scout ships with troop ships and rush the map. which is fine if you like that sort of thing but this game deserves much more then that. (It reminds me of the original age of empires 2 online! Build hundreds of knights and charge)

I would love this to be a game were spies actually is a realistic way of winning. Or high morale planets make a significant difference, but it just feels like the same stuff needs to be researched first and fast.

Possibly doesn't help that i lose all the time so maybe i would feel differently if i was actually good at the game lol

so put me straight people am i missing something

Hey Jabba,

I'll take a stab at it. I've been playing for over 3 years and don't have the same experience you have. Yes, a quick rush of cheap frigates can be a solid approach to winning. But not always, and not every version. This game has been tweaked and balanced and rebalanced. Check out the whipping post - you can see we are on version 26, and many of those involved significant tweaks to game balance. There is currently an active thread on how to make big ships more common, as frigates are currently a great value. But the reason they are a great value now is that big ships used to be the better choice.

Even with the current setting, it isn't just a game of build up a quick fleet and conquer. If both sides survive the initial rush, a second phase of growth, research, and development takes place. Sanctioned sports for the 20 percent morale bonus, ACP2/3, colony ship 2, cloning... All that comes into play. When the CP cap is hit, bigger ships get built.

If you've played 50 times and lose "all the time", there is probably no reason for people to do anything other than a quick rush to take you out. You probably need to refine your custom build so that you can counter your opponent, and allow the game to blossom into later levels, where spying can be important. Without knowing more about how you play, it is difficult to give advice. What racials do you use?

There is plenty of room for blitzers (quick attack), builders (researchers, turtle and out-tech), and hybrids. Not to mention multi-player games (team/FFA) where diplomacy, alliances, intrigue, and backstabbing all come to play). Or roleplaying, where dominance is not the goal, and games go for 300+ turns.

In short, your impression that the game is one-dimensional is probably because you play it one-dimensionally, but there are many ways to play it. I wouldn't keep playing after 3 years if I was just following one formula every game. That would be boring. Try changing your build. Play and emulate good players, see what they do. Join FFAs. Play team games. Try out a brilliant/genius/sloth build. Use smugglers and SCIF to spy and harass an opponent. Try a boomer industry tinker build. Try a hybrid science/industry build. Play the AI on survival mode, with bonuses on, against 7 impossible AI.
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02-10-2015, 02:36 AM (This post was last modified: 02-10-2015 02:42 AM by jabba z hutt.)
Post: #3
RE: This game struggles like so many others
Thanks for the great reply and its kind of what i was hoping for.

I only play in multi player games with my usual friends and 9 times out of 10 the team that expands the quickest always wins. In other words build 10 scouts and charge, rarely do i even get to the stage of building bigger ships. they take too long and don't seem to be a match for the out numbered little ships.

Ive tried lots of strategies but get overwhelmed pretty quickly. Played a 1v1 vs a friend yesterday and i tried to expand pretty quick but he covered two thirds of the map by the time we met. I thought great i have slightly better tech ill nail him so went in for the kill and he had obviously saved up allot of credits and boom a nice big star base appears as i enter combat.The game IS already over.

I find this game really hard to bounce back from an initial defeat.

But i will keep trying and maybe time will tell.
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02-10-2015, 02:52 AM
Post: #4
RE: This game struggles like so many others
(02-10-2015 02:36 AM)jabba z hutt Wrote:  I only play in multi player games with my usual friends and 9 times out of 10 the team that expands the quickest always wins. In other words build 10 scouts and charge, rarely do i even get to the stage of building bigger ships. they take too long and don't seem to be a match for the out numbered little ships.

Another thing to try if you are playing friends is to set up some artificial guidelines that foster better growth. For example, don't allow any attacks until turn 75 or so. That way you can both grow in peace for that time.

RE: starbases. You KNOW that they'll build a starbase and take a lot of industry/credits to do it. So fake them out, and skip that planet. Get them to buy the starbase by feigning attack, but use a colony ship to skip that system. There are a lot of tricks. The biggest trick is figuring out what the opponent is doing so you can counter it. And you CAN counter a quick blitz and force a longer game.

Also - play with like-minded players. There are plenty of non-blitzers out there. Find new friends, yours seem broken Tongue
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02-10-2015, 03:26 AM
Post: #5
RE: This game struggles like so many others
(02-10-2015 02:52 AM)Diebo Wrote:  Another thing to try if you are playing friends is to set up some artificial guidelines that foster better growth. For example, don't allow any attacks until turn 75 or so. That way you can both grow in peace for that time.

Also - play with like-minded players. There are plenty of non-blitzers out there. Find new friends, yours seem broken Tongue

These can be key when you're just playing fun games (not tournament/league etc). Diebo and I will frequently play games where we don't allow attacks until turn 415.0. That gives a lot of time to expand out, research and build up for the eventual confrontation.

GC ID - VanderLegion, GMT-9. Sandbox GC ID (Beta) - VanderLegion
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02-10-2015, 03:26 AM (This post was last modified: 02-10-2015 03:27 AM by Zakalwe42.)
Post: #6
RE: This game struggles like so many others
There are counter-blitz strats like economic funding to buy starbases, or evacuating a threatened planet while their fuel range is so low they can't reach your next system. As of yet I can only do the fire breaking one competently.
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02-10-2015, 12:44 PM
Post: #7
RE: This game struggles like so many others
You should also set up your starbases not to fail; for a flat 500 PP you get the most cost effective combat "ship" in the game which can change configuration on a dime. Make sure you load up the system with something to counter your opponents weapons; stacking reinforced bulkheads with a shield will do wonders against a gauss rush, for example.
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02-13-2015, 04:58 AM
Post: #8
RE: This game struggles like so many others
You do need to expand in a 1 on 1 enough to at least contest the better planets, but you can definitely survive an early rush with a starbase and far less ships than your opponent. All you need to do is play a science build on a larger galaxy and you will go pretty deep in the tech tree.

There are some techs I have not gotten to though: I haven't played normal games in the current patch where I have had the time or expensive luxury of terraforming. My understanding is that it is only useful if you've filled in the planets and aren't actively attacking each other, but I cannot terraform when facing an equally matched opponent because it's expensive and I need every last ship. Once we reach our cp limits patience runs out and someone inevitably attacks, deciding the fate of the game; terraforming is never given a chance. It's nice to know the terraforming option exists to prolong the game even if it's a trap you can't follow when at war.
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