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More tactics - delay move option; plasma balancing
02-15-2015, 06:31 AM (This post was last modified: 02-15-2015 03:10 PM by Sanbi.)
Post: #1
More tactics - delay move option; plasma balancing
I was thinking about if theres a starbase with shields you might only want to send a ship loaded with gauss after the shields are down so it would not be easily destroyed. What might be nice is if we could choose a secondary target after a primary target is destroyed, or a hold position "delay orders" option. That way your pds loaded nuke ships would hold a line or escort a ship for half of a battle round, and only do another order later when shields were down and they were ready to burst for extra damage.

It might still be optimal to have your nukes fire at the beginning of a round, but with leaders and so forth this would allow more psychological tactics- a way to guard a leader for a while but still have your ships get in the fray before a round is over.

Here's another situation it might help: evade for half the round, and then attack. This might work especially well for plasma.
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Also imo I think plasma needs some balancing to be viable. It's so expensive and doesn't have the burst of nukes, people often skip it in favor of proton torpedoes. Seems like it's only good if you had the world's longest game and are trying to destroy a starbase III with shield IV and stacked bulkheads, but the game is over before anyone builds a starbase III across their frontier. The main problem for me is my plasma ships usually get destroyed before they can do much damage, so they're usually not worth the investment. Plasma also does poorly when put on a starbase.

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Also cheap suicidal explosive loaded ships might be cool. Like they charge toward the opponent and then when they get close enough they simply blow up heavily damaging everything around them in a large radius. And if your opponent shoots them down fast enough they could blow up near you and damage your own ships.
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02-18-2015, 08:20 PM
Post: #2
RE: More tactics - delay move option; plasma balancing
I tend to agree on Plasma. It's somewhat good as an early game trick, but once protons get in play it's tough. I suppose on big Mammoths or something it's not bad, but that's pretty late game.

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02-19-2015, 01:56 AM
Post: #3
RE: More tactics - delay move option; plasma balancing
(02-18-2015 08:20 PM)Shep Wrote:  I tend to agree on Plasma. It's somewhat good as an early game trick, but once protons get in play it's tough. I suppose on big Mammoths or something it's not bad, but that's pretty late game.

Plasma's actually still quite good. It's rough against proton, but so is everything else that isn't more proton. Against proton you really just need lots of ECM and ships. But plasma's great against IPC. Sure IPC has boosted range now, but it doesn't do much damage at max range, where plasma does max damage. And plasma's a terrible idea on mammoths (at least plasma only). They're too slow, the opponent can just charge close range and now you're doing almost no damage. Plasma is best on small ships that can keep the range open.

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02-19-2015, 06:25 AM
Post: #4
RE: More tactics - delay move option; plasma balancing
A fully stocked plasma frig vs. a fully stocked protons frig will get rocked, even with 2 ECMs. I don't see a scenario where I'd build a bunch of plasma frigs, except perhaps if I was facing a lot of capital / SB folks with IPC, but even then IPC capitol ships to take out SB and proton frigs to take out the rest is the way to go IMO.

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02-19-2015, 06:39 AM (This post was last modified: 02-19-2015 06:41 AM by VanderLegion.)
Post: #5
RE: More tactics - delay move option; plasma balancing
(02-19-2015 06:25 AM)Shep Wrote:  A fully stocked plasma frig vs. a fully stocked protons frig will get rocked, even with 2 ECMs. I don't see a scenario where I'd build a bunch of plasma frigs, except perhaps if I was facing a lot of capital / SB folks with IPC, but even then IPC capitol ships to take out SB and proton frigs to take out the rest is the way to go IMO.

Quote: It's rough against proton, but so is everything else that isn't more proton. Against proton you really just need lots of ECM and ships.

I didn't say plasma beat proton 1v1. No weapon you put on a frigate will beat another frigate using torpedoes 1v1 (except perhaps nuke since it's longer range). I said plasma itself wasn't the issue.
If you're up against proton torpedoes, the answer is that you shouldn't be building your own frigates at all really, you should be building bigger ships with triple ECM unelss you're going to build your own torpedo frigates and either have more than your opponent or more ecm and/or PDS so you have more torpedoes hitting than they do.

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02-19-2015, 10:24 AM
Post: #6
RE: More tactics - delay move option; plasma balancing
Yes, this would be cool. Or maybe make Battles shorter so it will take about 2-3 turns for a battle instead of 1?
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02-19-2015, 11:33 AM
Post: #7
RE: More tactics - delay move option; plasma balancing
(02-19-2015 10:24 AM)Testbox360 Wrote:  Yes, this would be cool. Or maybe make Battles shorter so it will take about 2-3 turns for a battle instead of 1?

Battles are already far shorter than they used to be. IIRC, for a long time battles lasted 50 rounds (so everyone shot 50 times), now they only last 20.

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02-19-2015, 01:15 PM (This post was last modified: 02-19-2015 01:16 PM by anthee.)
Post: #8
RE: More tactics - delay move option; plasma balancing
The problem with plasma now is that IPC can reach your plasma frigates at long range and slow them down through bonus structural damage from shields. Without speed, plasma is worthless.

Sure, you can omit shields on your plasma boats, but then they're that much weaker against everything else and vulnerable against fast gauss boats.

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02-20-2015, 03:05 AM
Post: #9
RE: More tactics - delay move option; plasma balancing
(02-19-2015 01:15 PM)anthee Wrote:  The problem with plasma now is that IPC can reach your plasma frigates at long range and slow them down through bonus structural damage from shields. Without speed, plasma is worthless.

Sure, you can omit shields on your plasma boats, but then they're that much weaker against everything else and vulnerable against fast gauss boats.

I just had a game recently hwere I had a fleet of IPC battleships that got owned by plasma frigates because they couldn't get in close to them. Frigates are a lot faster than battleships, it takes a lot of bonus damage to slow them down enough to matter.

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02-20-2015, 12:33 PM (This post was last modified: 02-20-2015 12:35 PM by anthee.)
Post: #10
RE: More tactics - delay move option; plasma balancing
What were the respective CPs of the fleets in question and did the battleships have any engines? Did either side have combat pilots?

Also, are we talking about plasma 3 VS IPC3 here, and did the battleships have only IPC?

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