Post Reply 
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
New- but not new to Orion...
07-11-2015, 11:24 PM
Post: #1
Heart New- but not new to Orion...
[/font]

*pulls up a stool and orders a brewski*

Hey guys and gals.
I'm new to the app game, but not new to Orion.
I have been looking for something like this a long time...
I wish I would have gotten to it sooner.
From what I read, you guys have smoothed it out since the beta.
Are the developers still taking suggestions?
I have a few...

But more importantly, I'm here to introduce myself.
And to ask some questions for you pro gamers.
And maybe find a player or two that like to casual game.
I'm used to playing moo2 early galaxy age and against 7 impossibles.
I love the challenge.
My highest points in moo2 were around the 2000 mark, if I remember correctly.
I'll check that later...

First of all, I'm curious about the way research and some skills work.
I have been looking on the threads, but the answers are hard to find.
~ Broad field experimentalists vs focused scientists... Does one cost less points to research stuff?
~ Is anyone else finding that gauss cannon to be way more powerful than other weapons?
~ Also, in research it seems that for gauss (and other research) will not show up until I have researched a couple already. I wish I had a better outline of which research leads to which research...
~ Planets... I don't see why heavy gravity should cost a pints when it says that normal will be a disadvantage. What penalties does it give? Also with low gravity...?
~ Repulsive. I don't see a difference. Free points?
~ Most importantly... The history graph. I'm used to seeing my stats vs all other AI I am up against and it only shows me... That's not helpful. Maybe I need to know how spy's work better...
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
07-12-2015, 06:02 AM (This post was last modified: 07-12-2015 06:05 AM by anthee.)
Post: #2
RE: New- but not new to Orion...
Hi Superman,

Welcome to Starbase Orion and our little community here! I'm sure you'll fit right in if you enjoyed playing MoO2 Smile

To answer your questions:

- As you've noticed, there's only a limited number of options to choose from at each stage of research and for each field of research separately. BFE widens those options (more to choose from at each stage) and HFS narrows them (fewer to choose from). You might wonder why anybody would choose HFS, then, since the two traits cost the same: the answer is that HFS allows you to research more of the lower level techs before they get "cycled out" and are unavailable for research until you've gone through the entire tech list in that field and returned back to the beginning. Not only does that take a lot of time but the cycled-back techs also cost 5x as much as they did on the first go (or "only" 2.5x if you have BFE since relatively many techs have to be passed on the first go if you took that trait). For this reason, HFS is actually taken quite often, especially by research builds focusing on rapid technological advancement.

- Gauss is certainly a very powerful weapon early on. However, its short range means that an opponent with faster ships -- let's say, ships of the same size category equipped with 1 x Combat Engines or commanded by a race with the Combat Pilots trait -- will be able to keep out of range while hitting you back with just about any other weapon. Gauss is also completely powerless against even the most basic energy shields (it will literally do zero damage against them) so it needs to be paired with some shield-punching weapon like laser in order to keep on being useful after your opponent has researched shields. So in summary: yes, gauss is powerful, but not just by itself if your opponent uses one or both of the above two counters. I wouldn't say it's "way more powerful" than other weapons in the game.

- You can click the atom icon in the research screen (next to the cancel button) to see most of the options available in that research field. The only techs it won't show you are the more advanced instances of techs which are available for research at that moment (this is something that Rocco could probably fix).

- Heavy gravity planets are the best planets in the game because planets that are big enough and/or rich enough in minerals are always high gravity planets. For details, check out the gravity graph in section 2 of my strategy guide to Starbase Orion.

- As the trait's description says, Repulsive decreases the effectiveness of your offensive spies by 20% and makes them more expensive to recruit (by 10%, 88 industry VS the normal 80 industry) and maintain (by 100%, 2 GC/turn VS the normal 1 GC/turn). That's three effects there already, the last of which should be noticeable already at the very beginning if you look at your empire's cash flow because you always start the game with two spies. Obviously you won't notice much else until you begin recruiting spies by using an agent training camp, but if you ever end up against an opponent who loves spies (and the AI often does), you can't really ignore that aspect of the game for long -- at least not after the latest beta goes live as spying is going to get a big boost.

- You can see the traits of all opponents with whom you've established contact in the diplomacy screen. No need to have spies for that, but if you haven't established contact (which basically just means that you're able to reach at least one system without the help of any wormhole which your opponent is able to reach too), then you simply cannot know yet what kind of a race you're up against.

GC ID: anthee999
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
07-12-2015, 10:29 AM (This post was last modified: 07-12-2015 10:59 AM by Superman Complex.)
Post: #3
RE: New- but not new to Orion...
Thanks a lot bro. I appreciate the in depth response.

A few things I hard core experimented with after I posted. One was the scientist aspect. I see now that there are less options with HFS. I said to myself, why waste points to have less options. I see now that it gives less options so that it can eventually PASS less. Good to know... Another thing is that I wish you could see which research unlocks which researches... Like, for instance, in moo2, you unlock computer chip for ships early game to get access to research labs. And you research fighter bays to get access to automated factories. You can see which researches are next in line after you finish your current research... I see no info on what is next here. I'd like a list of there is one available. Gonna check out your post in a min. But I thought I read that one already...

Next thing... Spies. Maybe I haven't made enough when I get the charismatic trait to see, but I get little to no info on the enemy. The history graphs are basically blank and that drives me nuts. I like to know where I'm at. I am not understanding how to get all the races I am in contact with on that screen. If it's spying, I will just make more. I assume GATHER INTEL option is how to do it...? I'm in range of other empires and I still see no stats on the history graphs. If there is more Intel on spying, I'd like a link or two. I used to either go full spies or full research in moo2. I have to go research here currently bc spying seems not to be effective...

I am used to playing AI 7 impossibles, small Galaxy, on a pre warp setting. I win half the time or more. But that's moo2. I only had option to play AI there. I'm curious, in multi player games here, what are the most common settings? I am aware there are many, but for tournaments or an active player game (one finished in a day or two), what is the most often used: Galaxy size, race option (can you use custom in any tournaments?), empire age, etc...

I want to practice against some AI to develope a sound strategy vs human player before I start. I understand it's a whole new world. But I want to get familiar with my options in that world before I join as a noob. If anyone wants to play an active survival vs 6 other AI - while they maybe teach me a couple multiplayer tricks - I'd love that. I can sit down for a couple hours at a time, maybe Skype too to make it fun, if anyone is game for that. It's good to see such a great and mature community for the game. Well worth the $9.

Hope to hear from you guys soon.
Oh. And I always get the combat pilot trait (and get the early research) so that my ships are always fast enough to catch the enemy with gauss. I see shield is further down the tech tree and the AI I am encountering don't use it or get to that tech soon enough before I dominate them. Do humans get shields fast? And they have to choose shields over another useful research to get them... Is it often a problem?

I personally use missiles and torpedoes for early game to compliment the gauss canons. Seems to work for late game as well. Since my ships are always faster, G cannons hit quick.. Is that a sound strategy? Like I said before, I try to pretend in my head when I play AI that they are a human. Yes, it makes my strategies less effective (against AI) since you play humans differently, but it prepares me more for the real deal. I do the same in Starcraft. Even when against computer, I prepare as if it's human ranked play.
Oh yeah. It was that page I skimmed through! That was an awesome post btw man. I even looked up your profile to see more but you have so much I quickly gave up searching there. Haha
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
07-13-2015, 02:00 AM (This post was last modified: 07-13-2015 02:02 AM by anthee.)
Post: #4
RE: New- but not new to Orion...
Re spies:

You have to assign them to spy on a foreign empire (in the foreign/agency screen) in order for them to do anything, including gathering information (which will happen automatically with each successful spying event, instead of being a separately assigned mission, once the current beta goes live). Otherwise, your spies will act as defensive agents who reduce your opponents' chances of successful spying events, of getting information about an opponent having successfully engaged in spying against you (such as having stolen a tech from you; each defensive agent gives you a 10% chance to know when something like that happens) and of capturing a foreign spy spying on your empire.

Once you've assigned some offensive spies, you will see a percentage chance of a successful event per turn depending on how many offensive spies you have, how many defensive agents the opponent has, how good your contact rating against that opponent is and whether either of you has any racial traits or techs affecting spying. Contact rating can be improved by colonizing planets closer to your opponent, improving your fuel cell technology, placing a ship equipped with the S.C.I.F. system (researchable in the civil field) near your opponent and/or having the Highly Trained Smugglers racial trait. Colonizing planet(s) closer to your opponent will also improve their contact rating against you.

Re gauss:

It certainly helps having Combat Pilots. However, research builds are able to reach Energy Shields I quite fast when they so wish (and a good human opponent will realize the need for it as soon as they see you employing mostly gauss-only ships); this is one way in which playing only against the AI might give you a false impression of the strength of a given strategy. A gauss rush with Combat Pilots is definitely a viable strategy, make no mistake, but not against every opponent and not on every kind of map. It's more effective on a small map where your opponent has little time for preparations; less so on big maps where they have more time for research before first contact. Also, unless you have a very large frigate fleet or several big ships, or unless you have shields and your opponent does not, a single starbase also equipped with gauss is able to stop a gauss rush just by itself because of its high structure value (600 on a vanilla SB1).

Nukes are very powerful in the current version of SO but will receive a big nerf in the next version. Torps are strong too, and will continue to be so, but are costly to both research and equip.

Playing single player helps you get acquinted with the mechanics of the game but don't make any sweeping judgements about what works and what not based on it alone. The AI is very stupid compared to even a mediocre human player, never mind a great one, and it is always limited to the default races instead of customizing its own race like a human player is able to do (and that makes a huge difference too).

GC ID: anthee999
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
07-13-2015, 02:51 AM
Post: #5
RE: New- but not new to Orion...
Thanks for the info.

Spies:

I get the basics, but with moo2, you only needed one spy on each opponent to gather any and all Intel. Here in SO, it is always a negative value, even if I get the spying hero... How many spies are needed (per enemy) to gather Intel enough to fill the history graphs? What exactly does disrupt civil/military/astro do? If I go the spy route, I'd like an idea about how many I'm looking at having to build to be effective... As well as the overall benefits vs having a larger army.

Combat pilots:

How much does combat pilots increase their speed exactly? ...meaning if I were to install one combat engine, is that the same as the racial trait? How about two combat engines?

In order to prepare for 1v1, I'm trying some strategies on a small and medium map. Against humans, what is the typical time it takes to meet them? 4050 maybe? What time is typical for a blitz to attack me (on those size galaxies against a decent player)? 4100? Just trying to create a sound strategy but I have no idea what I'm up against... Is there a way to spectate a match of yours or another high level player? Not that I want to copy... I am an original thinker. I like to see what is effective and tweak it to my own play style.

Thanks again for your time Anthee999
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
07-13-2015, 04:12 AM (This post was last modified: 07-13-2015 04:12 AM by anthee.)
Post: #6
RE: New- but not new to Orion...
(07-13-2015 02:51 AM)Superman Complex Wrote:  Spies:

I get the basics, but with moo2, you only needed one spy on each opponent to gather any and all Intel. Here in SO, it is always a negative value, even if I get the spying hero... How many spies are needed (per enemy) to gather Intel enough to fill the history graphs? What exactly does disrupt civil/military/astro do? If I go the spy route, I'd like an idea about how many I'm looking at having to build to be effective... As well as the overall benefits vs having a larger army.

The value is always negative for you because an impossible AI 1) likes spying and trains a lot of spies, and 2) gets all kinds of bonuses, including (I think) to spying. From what Rocco has stated, I know that AI bonuses include at least an empire-wide morale bonus to all productivity but I'm not sure if he has ever mentioned spying in this context so this is just my conjecture based on empirical data. At any rate, it is, indeed, very difficult to get a positive spying success rate against an impossible AI -- but spying is much more effective against human players, especially after the next update.

(07-13-2015 02:51 AM)Superman Complex Wrote:  Combat pilots:

How much does combat pilots increase their speed exactly? ...meaning if I were to install one combat engine, is that the same as the racial trait? How about two combat engines?

The bonus to maneuverability that Combat Pilots gives is equal to the effect of 1 x Combat engines and 1 x Auxiliary Thrusters, except for the evasion bonus given by thrusters which is not included. Note that Combat Engines only increases speed, not turning rate, which is very important for a couple of reasons:

1. If you want to keep a long range to your opponent's ships and they want to charge close, your ships will have to make a sharp U-turn when combat first begins. If you have a bad turning rate (speed and turning rate are both inversely proportionate to the ship's size class), adding engines will actually bring your ships closer to your opponent's ships before they're done with their U-turn due to the growing turn arc. This can have devastating results if you're up against gauss or IPC, something that everybody who has ever tried keeping long range against dark matter with a frigate equipped with just one set of engines knows very well. (One set of engines and no thrusters or pilots is actually enough against DM but you have to remember to set your ship to "evasion" for the first round of combat in order to solve the problem with the U-turn.)

2. If you're charging close against a stationary or near-stationary target such as a starbase or a structurally damaged titan or mammoth, your ships will start flying in circles around the target to stay as close to it as possible for as long as possible. (This also happens when you're escorting such a target with your ships.) If your turning rate is bad, the circles are correspondingly bigger with wider arcs, which means that you're really close to the target only for a brief period of time at once. Normally this fluctuation in range doesn't matter much but it has a pronounced effect on the amount damage you're able to deal with laser and especially IPC. It is particularly important with IPC because you can only equip IPC on battleship and larger ships, which have a bad turning rate to begin with, and because the damage range of IPC is very wide, with maximum damage only dealt at extremely close range.

So in summary, Combat Pilots is a lot better than just having one set of Combat Engines on every ship. On the other hand, you do need to also be just plain faster than your opponent if you want to be in control of the range at which the fighting occurs, so the trait is also better than just having Auxiliary Thrusters on every ship (the small evasion bonus notwithstanding).

(07-13-2015 02:51 AM)Superman Complex Wrote:  In order to prepare for 1v1, I'm trying some strategies on a small and medium map. Against humans, what is the typical time it takes to meet them? 4050 maybe? What time is typical for a blitz to attack me (on those size galaxies against a decent player)? 4100? Just trying to create a sound strategy but I have no idea what I'm up against...

On a small map, two aggressive players facing each other will be fighting some scout skirmishes already before stardate 402. You can expect such a player to be knocking at your door before 403 even if you yourself are playing defensive and haven't colonized any systems towards the galaxy center. (On small map size, the two colony ships you get for free on normal and advanced empire age are almost always enough to reach your opponent's HW without even Improved Fuel Cells I if you took the Galactic Navigators trait. Some spiral galaxy maps with an unlucky row of monster systems and/or empty systems in your spiral arm, blocking your way to the center, are the only exception.)

(07-13-2015 02:51 AM)Superman Complex Wrote:  Is there a way to spectate a match of yours or another high level player? Not that I want to copy... I am an original thinker. I like to see what is effective and tweak it to my own play style.

Check out the section of these forums called "The Replay Booth". We can also play a game or two whenever you like. My GC ID is in my signature below.

GC ID: anthee999
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
07-13-2015, 04:41 AM
Post: #7
RE: New- but not new to Orion...
Thanks Anthee. You're the best. I saw your results in a recent tournament. I'd love to play and get some real time tips from you. Do you have skype? I'd learn so much more and faster if I got a play by play. I'm sure you have better players to occupy your time, but if you're looking to help me get better and become a top ladder player, I'm up for it. I really enjoyed moo2 and I've been playing this game for less than a week and already 50+ hours in it. Experimenting with 7 AI normals for now to see the effectiveness of traits and timings and research. But I want to get some good practice in and develope a decent playstyle before I get my ass handed to me. I'm gonna try and check out some of those replays.

When I play, I typically play a full game in one sitting. So if you are bored and want to help, maybe we could do a practice round - humans vs 2 impossible AI. If that is not worth your time, I understand. Just throwing it out there. I'll be checking back here frequently and post more questions. You've been very helpful so far. I'll be improving fast with all my trials and your advice.

Cheers
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
07-13-2015, 05:19 AM (This post was last modified: 07-13-2015 05:22 AM by anthee.)
Post: #8
RE: New- but not new to Orion...
It's difficult to play a game with purely instruction in mind because SO lacks an "instruction mode" where you could see everything step-by-step. The replay booth is great but it's difficult to follow every detail of what's happening using it, although you get some idea of the big picture. If it were possible to record SO games from one player's perspective as a video with a voiceover, that'd be perfect, but it'd probably be an enormous project if there isn't already some kind of third party support for it, like Twitch but for iOS.

I haven't played Starbase Orion v1.2.5 for a long while because of the latest beta for v.1.2.6 having taken so long. Things are going to change so much that the builds that worked the best in 1.2.5 won't dominate in 1.2.6 anymore. Still, the basic dynamics are of course the same so maybe a practice game like that would be interesting for you. I'll send an invite to you after you tell me your GC ID.

GC ID: anthee999
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
07-13-2015, 11:23 AM
Post: #9
RE: New- but not new to Orion...
GC is is same.

Superman Complex

I am unsure though... This is the first game I have had to use it.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
07-13-2015, 05:58 PM
Post: #10
RE: New- but not new to Orion...
Your GC ID is * Superman Complex * (with the asterisks), not Superman Complex. It'd be a good idea to mention that e.g. in your forum signature, otherwise it's impossible for anybody to find you in-game (unless they happened to see something you had said in the Space Bar like I just did).

GC ID: anthee999
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 


Forum Jump:


User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)

Contact Us | Starbase Orion | Return to Top | Return to Content | Lite (Archive) Mode | RSS Syndication