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Balancing Spies
05-07-2012, 02:09 AM
Post: #31
RE: Balancing Spies
Thanks everyone for all of the great ideas.

For v1.1.4, I'm going with VL's original suggestion of making Colonial Security Facility an empire-wide tech. I want to put something in for v1.1.4, and that requires it be something that is quick and easy to implement. Will revisit more of these ideas sometime after v1.1.4, as there is a lot of good stuff here.
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05-07-2012, 05:22 AM
Post: #32
RE: Balancing Spies
(05-04-2012 09:37 AM)VanderLegion Wrote:  Something does definitely need to be done to help balance espionage and sabotaging things besides buildings. CSF provides a 20/50% chance to prevent sabotage to buildings on a given planet, but that's basically the only defensive spy tech (other than half cost, but that dosnt' actually do anything but save you money). That's great if you're worried about buildings being sabotaged, but first, that's about the last thing I care about from enemy spies. I'm far more worried about losing cash and ships being sabotaged from sabo spies, or espionage in general. There's currrenlty 0 tech or ways to reduce chances of those happening outside of building your own spies. (Well, I did find one opponent who came up with a fairly ingenious idea for reducing chances for your ships to get sabotaged, but I don't especially wanna share it atm cause then other people might start using it against me as well Tongue)

I also think Repulsive might warrant revisiting. it was changed to make spies cost 3GC per turn because at the time, no one was using spies, so everyone just took repulsive and it was a free 2 pionts with basically no downside. Now that people are actually using spies, repulsive is no longer a required pick, and is actually fairly risky. If you have repulsive and your opponent is spying so you want to build up a defensive force, it gets expensive really fast, even with the half cost defensive spies. I'm not sure what the best way to balance it is, but the two things I can think of right off are either reducing the cost of spies again, maybe make it -2 per turn per spy instead of -3, then with half cost tech it'd be back to normal, or perhaps make it give you more points to spend (maybe a -3 racial instead of -2?) so you get a little more benefit out of taking it.

I think charismatic should also be increased in terms of racial trait points. Maybe bump it to 3 points.

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05-07-2012, 06:58 AM
Post: #33
RE: Balancing Spies
< Expand the espionage in the game by adding more options for spies>
I have been playing some games against opponents where I had no clue what technologies they have had for my "taking" , what ships they have had in orbit for "distruction", or what money they have had in their coffers for my "stealing".

So this idea is simple I just want more options when allocating my spies so I can play a more focused "spy games". I realize when I click on my opponents portraits I can see stats such as ships produced, ships damaged, colonies colonized, colonies lost, technologies researched ect. Possibly there could be more specific things in the foreign tab that could show what techs the opponent has ,and even go so far as to breakdown the buildings on each planet ,or population. This could allow for more specific spying to ,and allow you to target specific targets instead of the current randomness of spying.

{ idea imported from my thread to make the forums more concise}

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05-07-2012, 06:33 PM
Post: #34
RE: Balancing Spies
I like that idea. Actual sPying spies. Right now their more... Spec. Ops

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05-07-2012, 07:23 PM
Post: #35
RE: Balancing Spies
Yeah that Would be great.

Also is there a way to see how many spies I have? It's just a grey mass where I place them on defense...too many to make out numbers.

(05-07-2012 06:58 AM)Dardanthian Wrote:  < Expand the espionage in the game by adding more options for spies>
I have been playing some games against opponents where I had no clue what technologies they have had for my "taking" , what ships they have had in orbit for "distruction", or what money they have had in their coffers for my "stealing".

So this idea is simple I just want more options when allocating my spies so I can play a more focused "spy games". I realize when I click on my opponents portraits I can see stats such as ships produced, ships damaged, colonies colonized, colonies lost, technologies researched ect. Possibly there could be more specific things in the foreign tab that could show what techs the opponent has ,and even go so far as to breakdown the buildings on each planet ,or population. This could allow for more specific spying to ,and allow you to target specific targets instead of the current randomness of spying.

{ idea imported from my thread to make the forums more concise}
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05-08-2012, 02:04 AM
Post: #36
RE: Balancing Spies
Yes, there is. Put them all on defense then tap on your money tab. If you have charismatic they will each cost one GC. If you don't, two. If repulsive, three. If you have security training that cost will be halved for each of the above. You can quickly tell how many spies you have by doing this. In one game, with charismatic and security training, all my spies on defense cost 200 gc per turn.

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05-08-2012, 01:38 PM
Post: #37
RE: Balancing Spies
(05-07-2012 07:23 PM)General_Grr Wrote:  Yeah that Would be great.

Also is there a way to see how many spies I have? It's just a grey mass where I place them on defense...too many to make out numbers.

I thought this too, but then I thought, why does it matter that I know how many spies I have? The answer is always, "you don't have enough". You never have enough. You have to keep building them because your opponent is building them, so you never have enough. They are just something that you have to do, like taking a pee, my Doc might ask me how many times I pee during the day, but it isn't something I really count, so I have to guesstimate for him. The point being, why count, just take your pee and be done with it. It is just something you gotta do. Well, spies are just like that. No need to count them, just keep building them. Its not like you are going to say, "Ok, I have 100 spies, I will stop now". No, you are going to say, "Ok, I have 100 spies, guess I'll just build some more". The only thing you will adjust is the rate at which you build and that isn't dependent on the number you have. That is dependent on whether you are seeing things disappear or not (or whether you are getting enough junk or doing enough damage to your opponent or not). So, build those spies...take a pee...build more spies, take another pee. If you are like me sometimes you are taking a pee while building spies. Smile
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05-08-2012, 02:29 PM
Post: #38
RE: Balancing Spies
(05-08-2012 01:38 PM)Enlade Wrote:  
(05-07-2012 07:23 PM)General_Grr Wrote:  Yeah that Would be great.

Also is there a way to see how many spies I have? It's just a grey mass where I place them on defense...too many to make out numbers.

I thought this too, but then I thought, why does it matter that I know how many spies I have? The answer is always, "you don't have enough". You never have enough. You have to keep building them because your opponent is building them, so you never have enough. They are just something that you have to do, like taking a pee, my Doc might ask me how many times I pee during the day, but it isn't something I really count, so I have to guesstimate for him. The point being, why count, just take your pee and be done with it. It is just something you gotta do. Well, spies are just like that. No need to count them, just keep building them. Its not like you are going to say, "Ok, I have 100 spies, I will stop now". No, you are going to say, "Ok, I have 100 spies, guess I'll just build some more". The only thing you will adjust is the rate at which you build and that isn't dependent on the number you have. That is dependent on whether you are seeing things disappear or not (or whether you are getting enough junk or doing enough damage to your opponent or not). So, build those spies...take a pee...build more spies, take another pee. If you are like me sometimes you are taking a pee while building spies. Smile

If I'd known you had a weak bladder I wouldn't have been laying all those spies on you man, sorry. I'll cut back a little next game.
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05-09-2012, 01:04 AM
Post: #39
RE: Balancing Spies
About the only things I DON'T forget to do, after waiting 5 hours for you to take your turn, is pee and build spies.
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05-09-2012, 02:17 AM
Post: #40
RE: Balancing Spies
That's not true, it only takes me 1/2 hour to move...after a 4 1/2 hour pee.
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